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Thread: Dexter Fowler

  1. #16
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    Re: Dexter Fowler

    what i don't get is that for years...even decades, the Reds struggled to be competitive due to lack of quality starting pitching and now they finally have it. then, you are willing to trade away one of the Reds better starters in Bailey and then rely more heavily on Mike Leake and an unproven starter in Chapman in 2013? And if you go the Chapman route, invariably there will be someone else, such as Redmond, picking up the innings slack for Chapman. No thanks.....again as I see this "potentially" weakening the rotation. Bailey is only traded if the front office feels like he won't sign long term.
    Last edited by holster10; 12-03-2012 at 02:09 PM.

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  3. #17
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    Re: Dexter Fowler

    After seeing this

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/1...or-nelson.html


    I can't imagine Fowler would cost Bailey.

  4. #18
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    Re: Dexter Fowler

    Quote Originally Posted by drowg14 View Post
    After seeing this

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/1...or-nelson.html


    I can't imagine Fowler would cost Bailey.
    That's actually pretty encouraging. I would love Fowler and Mike Minor is much closer in value to a Leake+ package than one centered around Homer.

    If the Rox are wanting pitching for now and later, I'd offer up Leake, Lotzkar and Stubbs. If they balked at Lotzkar (and they might), I would swap him for Corcino... Not so hot on the idea of packaging Cingrani. I also don't know if they'd want Stubbs except to replace the depth they'd lose in Fowler. It might be wishful thinking, but by hook or crook, I really don't expect Drew to be on the club this season, though.

    Honestly, I think that's a pretty reasonable deal for both teams and would be a good baseball move.

  5. #19
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    Re: Dexter Fowler

    Dexter Fowler is not worth Homer Bailey. The Reds said they don't even want to trade a starting pitcher because we don't have that great of depth in the starting pitcher position, although I wouldn't mind trading Leake and a prospect or 2 (not naming Billy Hamilton) for a solid outfielder.

  6. #20
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    Re: Dexter Fowler

    Quote Originally Posted by Larkin88 View Post
    That's actually pretty encouraging. I would love Fowler and Mike Minor is much closer in value to a Leake+ package than one centered around Homer.

    If the Rox are wanting pitching for now and later, I'd offer up Leake, Lotzkar and Stubbs. If they balked at Lotzkar (and they might), I would swap him for Corcino... Not so hot on the idea of packaging Cingrani. I also don't know if they'd want Stubbs except to replace the depth they'd lose in Fowler. It might be wishful thinking, but by hook or crook, I really don't expect Drew to be on the club this season, though.

    Honestly, I think that's a pretty reasonable deal for both teams and would be a good baseball move.
    Stubbs isn't a bad fit for Colorado. Can't throw breaking balls in that Denver air all to well.

  7. #21
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    Re: Dexter Fowler

    Quote Originally Posted by panzecaz03 View Post
    Dexter Fowler is not worth Homer Bailey. The Reds said they don't even want to trade a starting pitcher because we don't have that great of depth in the starting pitcher position, although I wouldn't mind trading Leake and a prospect or 2 (not naming Billy Hamilton) for a solid outfielder.
    Not saying it was your opinion...but this time last year many on here were wanting to get rid of Bailey while he had value. OH how a differance a year makes!!!

  8. #22
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    Re: Dexter Fowler

    Quote Originally Posted by holster10 View Post
    what i don't get is that for years...even decades, the Reds struggled to be competitive due to lack of quality starting pitching and now they finally have it. then, you are willing to trade away one of the Reds better starters in Bailey and then rely more heavily on Mike Leake and an unproven starter in Chapman in 2013? And if you go the Chapman route, invariably there will be someone else, such as Redmond, picking up the innings slack for Chapman. No thanks.....again as I see this "potentially" weakening the rotation. Bailey is only traded if the front office feels like he won't sign long term.
    97 wins

    Don't.......trade.......pitching.......period (unless you get pitching in return)
    Huh? Huh-uh. Oh yeah, uh-huh.

  9. #23
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    Re: Dexter Fowler

    Quote Originally Posted by HUHUH View Post
    97 wins

    Don't.......trade.......pitching.......period (unless you get pitching in return)
    Agreed. Pitching, pitching and more pitching. Please.
    A summer watching a bad Reds' team, is still a pretty good summer.

  10. #24
    Member Larkin88's Avatar
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    Re: Dexter Fowler

    Quote Originally Posted by texasdave View Post
    Agreed. Pitching, pitching and more pitching. Please.
    In a vacuum, I do philosophically agree that pitching is more important than offense. But how would you improve the weaknesses from the club last season if not by dealing from a position of strength and relative depth?

    You've seen the market price on center fielders this year and expressed that you wouldn't meet the terms that the market is demanding. At least on Victorino anyway... and you have to figure Bourn (the other premiere FA CF) would cost even more, if not substantially.

    You also seemed dismayed after the Denard Span trade that the Reds weren't going to be able to improve their team like the Nationals. But even in that trade, the center piece going to the Twins was pitching. Or are highly touted pitching prospects acceptable bait as long as they aren't on the roster?

    Short of a windfall of cash even beyond what we've seen in the last year, I don't see how the Reds are going to improve their leadoff situation without trading away pitching in some capacity.

    I do not agree that you can make a blanket effort to "not trade pitching," period. Or if you do insist on that, I don't see how you can be upset when the Reds aren't able to land a good leadoff option for a package of Stubbs/Gregorious/Whoever else isn't a pitcher but isn't named Billy Hamilton. That's the state of our farm system.

  11. #25
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    Re: Dexter Fowler

    Quote Originally Posted by Larkin88 View Post
    You also seemed dismayed after the Denard Span trade that the Reds weren't going to be able to improve their team like the Nationals. But even in that trade, the center piece going to the Twins was pitching. Or are highly touted pitching prospects acceptable bait as long as they aren't on the roster?
    I'm kinda in the middle on this one, but I think there IS a big difference between Span-for-Cingrani/Corcino and Fowler-for-Bailey.

    Pitching wins championships, no doubt. But if you have a surplus and need help elsewhere, don't feel bad about making a trade.

    A guy who throws 200 innings of 3.80 ERA ball, though, isn't part of the "surplus." He's part of the guys you horde.
    Last edited by [deleted]; 12-04-2012 at 04:35 PM.

  12. #26
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    Re: Dexter Fowler

    Quote Originally Posted by [deleted] View Post
    I'm kinda in the middle on this one, but I think there IS a big difference between Span-for-Cingrani/Corcino and Fowler-for-Bailey.

    Pitching wins championships, no doubt. But if you have a surplus and need help elsewhere, don't feel bad about making a trade.

    A guy who throws 200 innings of 3.80 ERA ball, though, isn't be part of the "surplus." He's part of the guys you horde.
    No doubt there's a difference. And as I've kind of been trying to say in this thread, it's encouraging that it might NOT take Bailey to swing Fowler... but that bit is admittedly subjective in how you evaluate Homer's value against a Mike Minor's.

    Again, it's HUHUH's assertion "Don't.......trade.......pitching.......period (unless you get pitching in return)" that texasdave agreed with that I do NOT agree with.

    I'm not saying send Bailey to Colorado for Fowler. But I'm also not saying I wouldn't explore Leake (seemingly odd man out) or prospects (Corcino/Cingrani/Lotzkar) to improve the club just because they're pitchers and you can never have too much pitching. I do not think the Reds will be able to improve their leadoff situation without trading pitching... again, in some capacity.
    Last edited by Larkin88; 12-04-2012 at 04:34 PM.

  13. #27
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    Re: Dexter Fowler

    In that regard, then, I agree with you. I do think Leake is expendable at the right price, and I do think any significant trade is going to include him and/or some of the Corcino/Cingrani bunch.

  14. #28
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    Re: Dexter Fowler

    Quote Originally Posted by Larkin88 View Post
    In a vacuum, I do philosophically agree that pitching is more important than offense. But how would you improve the weaknesses from the club last season if not by dealing from a position of strength and relative depth?

    You've seen the market price on center fielders this year and expressed that you wouldn't meet the terms that the market is demanding. At least on Victorino anyway... and you have to figure Bourn (the other premiere FA CF) would cost even more, if not substantially.

    You also seemed dismayed after the Denard Span trade that the Reds weren't going to be able to improve their team like the Nationals. But even in that trade, the center piece going to the Twins was pitching. Or are highly touted pitching prospects acceptable bait as long as they aren't on the roster?

    Short of a windfall of cash even beyond what we've seen in the last year, I don't see how the Reds are going to improve their leadoff situation without trading away pitching in some capacity.

    I do not agree that you can make a blanket effort to "not trade pitching," period. Or if you do insist on that, I don't see how you can be upset when the Reds aren't able to land a good leadoff option for a package of Stubbs/Gregorious/Whoever else isn't a pitcher but isn't named Billy Hamilton. That's the state of our farm system.
    Well said

  15. #29
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    Re: Dexter Fowler

    Quote Originally Posted by drowg14 View Post
    Stubbs isn't a bad fit for Colorado. Can't throw breaking balls in that Denver air all to well.
    But they can still pitch right handed there....

  16. #30
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    Re: Dexter Fowler

    I don't see the Reds having depth in starting pitching.

    1) Aroldis Chapman would have to be a question mark. Has he ever been a successful starter? Can he pitch 180 innings? Does he have enough pitches?

    2) Cingrani and Corcino were in Double-A last year? Are they ready to make the leap to the Majors? Questionable. Stephenson is even further away.

    3) There is a reason why Todd Redmond is 28 and has made all of one start in the majors. Do you really want him taking the ball every fifth day for 15 or so starts in case of injury? I don't.

    4) The Reds were extremely fortunate that their starters did not miss a turn in 2012. Is that to be expected again in 2013?

    No, if the Reds are going to have holes in their 25-man roster I prefer it to be in the lineup and not on the mound.
    A summer watching a bad Reds' team, is still a pretty good summer.


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