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Thread: Ludwick Contract Offer/ Ludwick has deal with the Reds.

  1. #46
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Ludwick Contract Offer

    Quote Originally Posted by Blitz Dorsey View Post
    Some of you would have been OK with giving Ludwick $10 million/year for 2 years. The Reds are about to get him for $7 million. I'm surprised that so many of you seem ho-hum about this move. With Votto in place, it's all about building around him. Ludwick is a good fit for this team. He's not great and his numbers might decline a bit, but you never know. It's not out of the question that he could maintain his 2012 numbers.

    And who else were the Reds going to get to fill the void of a LF/cleanup hitter that bats right-handed? They had a limited amount of money and I think they're making the most out of it.
    That's how I feel.
    If they can get Ludwick for 2 years at 10 million/year or less, it's a fantastic move. 7 million would be phenominal.
    The market is getting crazy.. Gomes getting 5 million/year is just nuts.

    If the Reds don't sign Ludwick, they are under pressure, because they absolutely have to acquire an OF.. that will probably lead to an overpay in a trade, because I doubt Walt is going to be giving out a contract like Victorino got for a mediocre player. (Victorino might bounce back, but that's not a contract I want the Reds to have).

    Give me Ludwick and let me keep the farm intact. Hopefully we can get a little more offense this year from Frazier playing all year, Ludwick not adjusting, hopefully getting something out of Mez, Votto healthy, and some improvement from CF (even if it's just hoping the Stubbs/Hamilton combo improves from last year's CF production). Heck, we need to pick up two reserve infielders, hopefully that adds some strength to the bench/offense as well. (Hopefully one is a hitter).
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

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  3. #47
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: Ludwick Contract Offer

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    That's how I feel.
    If they can get Ludwick for 2 years at 10 million/year or less, it's a fantastic move. 7 million would be phenominal.
    The market is getting crazy.. Gomes getting 5 million/year is just nuts.

    If the Reds don't sign Ludwick, they are under pressure, because they absolutely have to acquire an OF.. that will probably lead to an overpay in a trade, because I doubt Walt is going to be giving out a contract like Victorino got for a mediocre player. (Victorino might bounce back, but that's not a contract I want the Reds to have).

    Give me Ludwick and let me keep the farm intact. Hopefully we can get a little more offense this year from Frazier playing all year, Ludwick not adjusting, hopefully getting something out of Mez, Votto healthy, and some improvement from CF (even if it's just hoping the Stubbs/Hamilton combo improves from last year's CF production). Heck, we need to pick up two reserve infielders, hopefully that adds some strength to the bench/offense as well. (Hopefully one is a hitter).
    I go back and forth on all of this.

    1. The good thing is, as reminded by another poster, the Reds won 97 games with Ludwick batting cleanup, Votto playing half a season on 1 leg, and Stubbs playing CF and wrongfully batting leadoff. Cozart and Frazier were 2 rookies that hopefully get better. The team is basically still intact.

    2. After seeing how much teams are overpaying for Victorino and others, Ludwick is looking alot better.

    3. I said earlier in this offseason that I will feel better later in the 2013 season after seeing how much Corcino, Cingrani, Gregorius, Hamilton, and other minor leaguers progress. I think it will answer alot of questions going forward. And I hope the team stays healthy all year, but more than likely will will see one or two of those guys come up with the major league club.

    As these outfielders get signed, there will be a few left standing unsigned. Garbage or possibly other factors, there might be someone worth considering.

    If the Reds have an injury plagued season, they are in good position to maybe upgrade at some point. I think they've positioned themselves well to not have to do anything drastic.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  4. #48
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Ludwick Contract Offer

    Quote Originally Posted by dunner13 View Post
    Ok heres an out of the box idea, not sure how realistic it is but its just a thought.

    Trade Bailey and Gregorious to ARZ for Upton
    Put Ludwick in LF, Bruce in CF, Upton in RF Might not have a lot of speed out there but that outfield is loaded with power.

    Then trade Billy Hamilton and Mescoraco to the Rays for Matt Moore
    Supposedly the rays are open to trading anyone including Moore and you have to figure that offer would at least get them thinking.
    Obviously I don't think this will happen but that would be a stacked OF and we would have an insanely good rotation with Latos, Cueto, Chapman and Moore
    I think that might be a grand plan if I was drafting a Strat-O-Matic team, but I think the defensive penalty may be greater than the offense gained. Plus, Bruce likely is fighting power issues when he strains or blows out his hammy, or wear and tear on the knees, trying to keep up with the demands of covering both gaps. There's a reason he hasn't played CF but for a very, very few times very early in his MLB career.
    Can't win with 'em

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  5. #49
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    Re: Ludwick Contract Offer

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    I go back and forth on all of this.

    1. The good thing is, as reminded by another poster, the Reds won 97 games with Ludwick batting cleanup, Votto playing half a season on 1 leg, and Stubbs playing CF and wrongfully batting leadoff. Cozart and Frazier were 2 rookies that hopefully get better. The team is basically still intact.

    2. After seeing how much teams are overpaying for Victorino and others, Ludwick is looking alot better.

    3. I said earlier in this offseason that I will feel better later in the 2013 season after seeing how much Corcino, Cingrani, Gregorius, Hamilton, and other minor leaguers progress. I think it will answer alot of questions going forward. And I hope the team stays healthy all year, but more than likely will will see one or two of those guys come up with the major league club.

    As these outfielders get signed, there will be a few left standing unsigned. Garbage or possibly other factors, there might be someone worth considering.

    If the Reds have an injury plagued season, they are in good position to maybe upgrade at some point. I think they've positioned themselves well to not have to do anything drastic.

    Good summary Votto. The Reds aren't in a "we have to win right now" mode. Our window is really 3-4 years at least. It's not the time to do something drastic that is a one year move.

  6. #50
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    Re: Ludwick Contract Offer

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    I go back and forth on all of this.

    .

    I hear where you're coming from.
    In my fantasy world, we trade for Choo (or another upgrade from Ludwick) and then sign him longterm.
    I guess I am coming to grips that there's really not that many upgrades to Ludwick available. The Tribe supposedly wants a king's ransom for Choo. I can't blame them for that, but a Ludwick in the hand is worth more than a Choo in the bush.

    Having Ludwick for 2 years gives us time to find a young 3b/LF (or develop one from the farm) to eventually replace Ludwick..
    Walt seems very methodical.. Having Broxton and Ludwick resigned and checked off the shopping list will then give him time to shop for a potential CF help, address the bench, and add a lefty for the bullpen. I think if the LF situation is not solved quickly, those other "needs" will suffer.

    I also like the fact that Ludwick is not a budget buster. Having him signed might help make progress in signing Latos/Bailey to those rumored longterm deals as well.. If we signed Victorino or someone like that, that's a drain on the money to extend the core team.. Hopefully the Red Sox will fill up their roster soon and stop driving up the prices..
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  7. #51
    Member mattfeet's Avatar
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    Re: Ludwick Contract Offer

    Mike Puma ‏@NYPost_Mets

    Mets liked Ryan Ludwick, but with him returning to Cincy it's "back to the drawing board," according to Mets official.
    Retweeted by Mo Egger

  8. #52
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: Ludwick Contract Offer

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Good summary Votto. The Reds aren't in a "we have to win right now" mode. Our window is really 3-4 years at least. It's not the time to do something drastic that is a one year move.
    It simply boils down to the above. The core is set. Maybe my expectations are low, but I figure this team is set to make the playoffs 2 of the next 3 years (face it, bad seasons do happen and this club is not exempt from them) and I can live with that. Improve when possible, but there really aren't any make or break moves that have to be made at this point.

  9. #53
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    Re: Ludwick Contract Offer

    Reds don't have the money, and they're set with Frazier at 3B, especially since it looks like Ludwick is signed for LF. But I read on MLBTR that Youkilis wants to play for only contending teams.

    Hmmmmmmm.

    Tempting. But pricetag too high, I'm sure.

    With A-Roid's injury situation, I'm betting Yanks are his destination.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  10. #54
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    Re: Ludwick Contract Offer

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    Reds don't have the money, and they're set with Frazier at 3B, especially since it looks like Ludwick is signed for LF. But I read on MLBTR that Youkilis wants to play for only contending teams.

    Hmmmmmmm.

    Tempting. But pricetag too high, I'm sure.

    With A-Roid's injury situation, I'm betting Yanks are his destination.
    I guess I just don't get the appeal of Youkillis.
    His last 2 seasons, ops.. 833, 745.. He's not a superstar anymore.
    He can't play 1b or DH here.. He's not a great glove at 3b either.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  11. #55
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: Ludwick Contract Offer

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    I guess I just don't get the appeal of Youkillis.
    His last 2 seasons, ops.. 833, 745.. He's not a superstar anymore.
    He can't play 1b or DH here.. He's not a great glove at 3b either.
    I agree he's on the decline.

    I guess the only reason I'd even consider it, if I would, is his veteran postseason experience, and he's a hometown guy.

    Other than that, I agree with what you're saying.

    Sometimes, playing in front of your hometown crowd makes an athlete do more. But then again, maybe not.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  12. #56
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Ludwick Contract Offer

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    I guess I just don't get the appeal of Youkillis.
    His last 2 seasons, ops.. 833, 745.. He's not a superstar anymore.
    He can't play 1b or DH here.. He's not a great glove at 3b either.
    I'd say the appeal is three-fold;

    1. We're dreaming (to some extent) that he can recapture 2008-2010
    2. Even if he never gets that slugging back, he still gets on base
    3. He's a local

    That said, I agree that he'd be a pretty big risk given his defensive shortcomings at 3B in particular. However, his low AVG last year was in large part due to a low BABIP that doesn't seem to reflect a real skill regression.

    I'd project him as a 3 win player next year.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  13. #57
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Ludwick Contract Offer

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    I'd say the appeal is three-fold;

    1. We're dreaming (to some extent) that he can recapture 2008-2010
    2. Even if he never gets that slugging back, he still gets on base
    3. He's a local

    That said, I agree that he'd be a pretty big risk given his defensive shortcomings at 3B in particular. However, his low AVG last year was in large part due to a low BABIP that doesn't seem to reflect a real skill regression.

    I'd project him as a 3 win player next year.
    Makes sense, but let's assume Ludwick is resigned.
    I'd rather put the Youkills money towards another reliever and/or bench help.
    I think I have more hope Frasier only slightly regresses from last year than hope that Youkills re-finds the magic.

    I guess I also believe that in some cases, a low BABIP means the hitter's skill has declined too. Now, in all fairness, I didn't see Youkills play last year, so I can't make a fair judgement. I guess I just don't like to pin my hopes on a player based on BABIP (That's just a personal thing, not dissing the stat).

    His last 3 years of OBP are 411, 373, 336.. but that does track with his declining batting average. I agree that he still has his batting eye.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  14. #58
    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: Ludwick Contract Offer

    NASHVILLE, Tenn. ó Ryan Ludwick is apparently deciding something that you and I will never have to decide: Whether itís wise to turn down an extra million bucks or so to play for the Reds.

    Ludwick has a two-year offer from the Reds believed to be in the $13 to $14 million range. Other teams are offering more. I donít know which teams they are. But, money aside, the Reds have a lot to offer Ludwick. The team won 97 games last year and looks like it will be a strong contender again in 2013.
    I'm beginning to think we may have to plan for life after Ludwick.
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

  15. #59
    Member Phhhl's Avatar
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    Re: Ludwick Contract Offer

    There have been two things wrong with this offense for the last 3-4 years, leadoff hitter and a run producing right handed hitting masher to hit between Votto and Bruce. Ludwick finally solved one of these dilemnas last year, so just give him the 3 mil and be done with it. Refrain from signing Scott Rolen, some has been middle infield "wizard" and some 38 year old backup catcher and bring Ludwick back already. The system is stocked with guys that can fill the fringe roles the Reds so often waste their money on.

    Surely the money is there to get this done. I am going to feel cheated if I don't get to see a healthy Votto hitting in front of that guy and Bruce next year. Without making a trade, there is nobody like Ludwick left out there and we'll be looking at going into next season with the same old offensive bugaboos that have been haunting us forever.

  16. #60
    It's showtime! RedEye's Avatar
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    I'm so tired of everyone talking about how the hitter b/t Joey and Jay needs to be RH. Do the splits of those two hitters mean nothing?
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013


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