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Thread: Centerfield 2013

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    Centerfield 2013

    I know it's all over the other threads, but I thought I would start a separate thread limited to the question how the Reds should approach CF.

    1. They could stay with Stubbs and Heisey and wait for Billy Hamilton.

    2. They could make a trade or free agent signing for a current, starting player like Fowler or Victorino or Crisp or somebody else.

    3. They could try to pick up someone cheaper in a trade or free agent signing. Maybe a Nyger Morgan. Possibly an Eric Young Jr.

    Walt is usually full of surprises, but with Hamilton on the way I look for the third, cheaper option. Personally, I think Coco Crisp makes sense, but the Reds may opt for an even cheaper approach.

    What's your bottom line on this. How will the Reds address CF? How would you address CF?
    Last edited by Kc61; 12-04-2012 at 02:23 PM.

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    Member jhu1321's Avatar
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    Re: Centerfield 2013

    2. I would trade for Fowler if the price is right (not including Bailey or Hamilton). We could always use him in left if Hamilton was ready but I believe his bat is a work in progress and will continue to be a hinderance to him. This would buy us some time to be patient with him. I would offer Leake, one of Corcino/Cingranni & Heisey or Stubbs. If they don't bite I move on to Crisp (puke).

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    Re: Centerfield 2013

    Morgan might come quite cheap, and would be a good platoon partner for Stubbs.

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    Re: Centerfield 2013

    Honestly, after looking at all of these scenarios so far, I say let's keep Stubbs out there. We know we're getting a premium defender, which IS worth something. He's working with a hitting coach all winter, so maybe he'll become a better hitter in the .250+ range. While not ideal, it's still a decent stopgap until BH arrives.

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    Re: Centerfield 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by jhu1321 View Post
    2. I would trade for Fowler if the price is right (not including Bailey or Hamilton). We could always use him in left if Hamilton was ready but I believe his bat is a work in progress and will continue to be a hinderance to him. This would buy us some time to be patient with him. I would offer Leake, one of Corcino/Cingranni & Heisey or Stubbs. If they don't bite I move on to Crisp (puke).
    I'm with this idea.

    If you can trade Leake and prospects, and get Fowler or someone comparable, then I do it.

    Any trade including Bailey, Chapman, Hamilton, for a CFer, I say no to. I go free agent route at that point.

    I'd really like to keep Cingrani and Corcino if possible and see how they progress this year in triple A. Only for the right deal do I trade either of them.

    If potential trade partners want the world for a Fowler, etc.......I hold tight, use Heisey and Stubbs in CF, and hope Hamilton is here sooner than later.
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    Moderator RedlegJake's Avatar
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    Re: Centerfield 2013

    I'm not terribly upset if Stubbs is out there. He is one of the most dangerous players in baseball when he reaches...scores a very very high pct of times reached...solid defense...if he adds a dozen Walks.and a dozen singles, about 1 extra on base a week (doable) he'd be solid. He just has such a horrible approach hitting I have my doubts any coach helping him. His tools are immense but he seems stubbornly resistant to changing from rumors I've read. For what rumors are worth. Maybe this seasons results finally got the message that his way isn't working anymore at this level. I would genuinely like to see that because I like the guy but call me a doubter. And the Reds shopping so openly for a leadoff bridge the Reds appear to doubt it too.

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    Re: Centerfield 2013

    I'd prefer a Leake and change deal for Fowler, as I believe he's an outsanding bet as either a leadoff guy or a #2 guy (if Hamilton ends up pushing the issue). He's got upside he hasn't hit yet and his defense should improve quite a bit coming out of Coors Field.

    However, if Colorado wants too much, I'd then probably be okay with finding a platoon partner for Stubbs in CF on the cheap. A Michael Brantley, Coco Crisp, or David DeJesus wouldn't be all that poor an option as the strong side of a platoon, IMO. Gerardo Parra would also fit into that bill quite nicely.

    I could also be pushed into spending a ton of money ($20 million) on a one-year contract for Josh Hamilton to play CF with a platoon of Xavier Paul and Chris Heisey playing LF. Don't think that'll happen, though.

    I don't want Drew Stubbs playing CF full-time for the Reds in 2013. He's good defensively, but only hits mistakes. And he misses too many of those to be a viable starter in this league. If he could find the 111 points of slugging he lost between 2010 and last year, I might change my mind while batting him 8th in the lineup.
    Last edited by Scrap Irony; 12-04-2012 at 01:26 PM.
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    Re: Centerfield 2013

    Morgan, Fowler, Victorino, Bourne, Parra, DeJesus. Are they what's left? Trade for a cheap platoon with Stubbs. Parra or Morgan...even DDeJesus. Victorino wanting 3/30 is nuts. Fowler? Don't trade Bailey! If they'd take Leake and minor leaguers maybe. Bourne is another ridiculous contract. I'd pay Upton that money but if I want Bourn I'll just wait a bit for Billy because that what I bet I'll get - only a lot cheaper and even faster!

  10. #9
    Member SidneySlicker's Avatar
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    Re: Centerfield 2013

    I'd go 1 or 3
    I'm hoping the Reds go after Upton.
    For the future I think I like Upton in LF and Hamilton in CF

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    Re: Centerfield 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    I could also be pushed into spending a ton of money ($20 million) on a one-year contract for Josh Hamilton to play CF with a platoon of Xavier Paul and Chris Heisey playing LF. Don't think that'll happen, though.

    I don't want Drew Stubbs playing CF full-time for the Reds in 2013. He's good defensively, but only hits mistakes. And he misses too many of those to be a viable starter in this league. If he could find the 111 points of slugging he lost between 2010 and last year, I might change my mind while batting him 8th in the lineup.
    Paul will never man CF for the Reds on any sort of regular or semi-regular basis. Nor should he.

    Hamilton is also pretty poor in CF. If the Reds decided to play him there, it certainly wouldn't be to get Pauls's bat into LF.

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    Re: Centerfield 2013

    If Ludwick is resigned, I think #1 is the most likely scenario, perhaps with something like a straight trade of Heisey for a more traditional, if not all that talented, leadoff type.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    Re: Centerfield 2013

    I would do 1. and I think thats Walts plan to. Hamilton is one of the most exciting prospects in the game and I think he will be ready before the all star break. We can survive with Stubbs for a few months and for a budget minded team it makes a lot more sense to wait for your prospect who will be dirt cheap for the next few years then give up a bunch of prospects for someone like Fowler who is going to get very expensive soon. Fowler would be great but hes going to cost us alot in a trade and while he may only cost 4M for 13 his salary is only going to go up. Then what do you do with Hamilton? Fowler is young if you get him its to keep him long term so if you get Fowler then you don't need Hamilton so to me you would then have to trade Hamilton. Which just doesn't make any sense, just wait til June and then we will have a blazing fast leadoff hitter who we can afford and we get to keep Bailey, Corcino and whoever else the Rockies would want.

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    Re: Centerfield 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Paul will never man CF for the Reds on any sort of regular or semi-regular basis. Nor should he.

    Hamilton is also pretty poor in CF. If the Reds decided to play him there, it certainly wouldn't be to get Pauls's bat into LF.
    I realize that, certainly.

    But I'd suggest that a combination of Bruce, Hamilton, and a Heisey/ Paul platoon would greatly outproduce the Bruce, Stubbs, Ludwick OF of 2012 (or a 2013 OF of the same players).

    Getting Stubbs either out of Cincinnati or on the correct side of a platoon split really enhances the team. His numbers last season were an anchor to an otherwise okay lineup.
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    Re: Centerfield 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by dunner13 View Post
    I would do 1. and I think thats Walts plan to. Hamilton is one of the most exciting prospects in the game and I think he will be ready before the all star break. We can survive with Stubbs for a few months and for a budget minded team it makes a lot more sense to wait for your prospect who will be dirt cheap for the next few years then give up a bunch of prospects for someone like Fowler who is going to get very expensive soon. Fowler would be great but hes going to cost us alot in a trade and while he may only cost 4M for 13 his salary is only going to go up. Then what do you do with Hamilton? Fowler is young if you get him its to keep him long term so if you get Fowler then you don't need Hamilton so to me you would then have to trade Hamilton. Which just doesn't make any sense, just wait til June and then we will have a blazing fast leadoff hitter who we can afford and we get to keep Bailey, Corcino and whoever else the Rockies would want.
    1) I don't believe Hamilton will be ready by the All-Star break of 2013. 2014, perhaps.

    2) Fowler could play LF. While slightly unorthodox, many teams have played two CF in the same OF. There may be an adjustment period, but I believe he could do it.

    If he could move there, the Cincinnati OF defense would instantly become the best in the league. Fowler may not have HR power; however, because Cozart, Phillips, and Frazier all have above average power for their respective positions (not to mention Votto and Bruce) and Mesoraco profiles to eventually hit for power, his 10-15 HR isn't all that glaring a problem. And that .370+ obp would look awfully good in front of Votto along with Hamilton (when he's ready).

    Imagine an offense with an average obp among the top three spots in the batting order hovering at .375. How would that look in front of Bruce, Frazier, and Phillips?
    "You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
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    Member SidneySlicker's Avatar
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    Re: Centerfield 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    1) I don't believe Hamilton will be ready by the All-Star break of 2013. 2014, perhaps.

    2) Fowler could play LF. While slightly unorthodox, many teams have played two CF in the same OF. There may be an adjustment period, but I believe he could do it.

    If he could move there, the Cincinnati OF defense would instantly become the best in the league. Fowler may not have HR power; however, because Cozart, Phillips, and Frazier all have above average power for their respective positions (not to mention Votto and Bruce) and Mesoraco profiles to eventually hit for power, his 10-15 HR isn't all that glaring a problem. And that .370+ obp would look awfully good in front of Votto along with Hamilton (when he's ready).

    Imagine an offense with an average obp among the top three spots in the batting order hovering at .375. How would that look in front of Bruce, Frazier, and Phillips?
    Well they are definitely fast tracking hamilton. I'd be very surprised if we don't see Hamilton sooner rather than later. I think they believe he's ready at the plate, they just want to make sure he's ready defensively.
    Last edited by SidneySlicker; 12-04-2012 at 04:54 PM.


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