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Thread: Centerfield 2013

  1. #16
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    Re: Centerfield 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by dunner13 View Post
    I would do 1. and I think thats Walts plan to. Hamilton is one of the most exciting prospects in the game and I think he will be ready before the all star break. We can survive with Stubbs for a few months and for a budget minded team it makes a lot more sense to wait for your prospect who will be dirt cheap for the next few years then give up a bunch of prospects for someone like Fowler who is going to get very expensive soon. Fowler would be great but hes going to cost us alot in a trade and while he may only cost 4M for 13 his salary is only going to go up. Then what do you do with Hamilton? Fowler is young if you get him its to keep him long term so if you get Fowler then you don't need Hamilton so to me you would then have to trade Hamilton. Which just doesn't make any sense, just wait til June and then we will have a blazing fast leadoff hitter who we can afford and we get to keep Bailey, Corcino and whoever else the Rockies would want.
    Basically agree that the Reds should plan for Billy H in centerfield. I wouldn't drop a wad of money or a ton of prospects to fill CF.

    But I just don't see why the Reds need to stick with Stubbs and Heisey even temporarily.

    Why not, at minimum, trade one of them for a lefty hitter who gets on base, makes some contact and plays CF?

    Even on a temporary basis, the current CF tandem just doesn't work. Heisey has zero plate discipline, his K/BB rate is very poor. Stubbs, more simply, has a major contact problem.

    The Reds need lefty hitting, OBP, and contact hitting. Why would Walt just sit with Stubbs and Heisey who are a big part of this problem?

    So I agree that a big move is probably a mistake, but how about a relatively small move to provide some balance in CF?
    Last edited by Kc61; 12-04-2012 at 04:00 PM.

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  3. #17
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Centerfield 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Basically agree that the Reds should plan for Billy H in centerfield. I wouldn't drop a wad of money or a ton of prospects to fill CF.

    But I just don't see why the Reds need to stick with Stubbs and Heisey even temporarily.

    Why not, at minimum, trade one of them for a lefty hitter who gets on base, makes some contact and plays CF?
    If that deal was out there to be had, I imagine Walt would have done it. Beyond that, you're either not upgrading or your talking about a much bigger deal. By the time you say "1-2 year rental, average or better defense in CF, OBP north of .325, not too expensive", you don't have many options out there.

    Heisey for Crisp could work, if the A's wanted yet another cheap 4th OF type. DeJesus or Parra would be a decent stopgap, but both teams would probably want pitching (or a SS for the D'Backs), not another OF.

    That's pretty much it as far as I can tell. After that, you're in the territory of Nyjer Morgan, Reed Johnson, etc. who are (on balance) unlikely to be upgrades.
    Last edited by RedsManRick; 12-04-2012 at 04:21 PM.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  4. #18
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    Re: Centerfield 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    If that deal was out there to be had, I imagine Walt would have done it. Beyond that, you're either not upgrading or your talking about a much bigger deal. By the time you say "1-2 year rental, average or better defense in CF, OBP north of .325, not too expensive", you don't have many options out there.

    Heisey for Crisp could work, if the A's wanted yet another cheap 4th OF type. DeJesus or Parra would be a decent stopgap, but both teams would probably want pitching (or a SS for the D'Backs), not another OF.

    That's pretty much it as far as I can tell. After that, you're in the territory of Nyjer Morgan, Reed Johnson, etc. who are (on balance) unlikely to be upgrades.
    Some guys may not be upgrades in talent, but may just be better fits.

    Reds have lefty/righty balance issues IMO. They also have swing and miss and OBP issues. IMO Stubbs and Heisey contribute to these issues.

    Nyger Morgan is probably not a better player, but he has a lifetime .352 OBP against righties. I'd probably rather have him platooning with Stubbs than the current duo (although Morgan's 2012 was poor).
    Last edited by Kc61; 12-04-2012 at 04:54 PM.

  5. #19
    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: Centerfield 2013

    Remember the time we didn't acquire Alejandro De Aza to play CF?
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

  6. #20
    We Need Our Myths reds1869's Avatar
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    Re: Centerfield 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
    Remember the time we didn't acquire Alejandro De Aza to play CF?


    I'm glad I saw that thread when I did. It brought a smile to my face.

  7. #21
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Centerfield 2013

    Put me down for option 3. I think the Reds should go for a cheap platoon partner for Stubbs who fits the profile beter than Heisey does. Too many of the options people are clamoring for would create too many holes to acquire. The only guys on the big league roster I'd be willing to deal are Heisey and one of the journeyman RH relievers (Simon, Arredondo, Masset, Ondrusek). I'm not high on dealing any of the top 4 or 5 prospects. I'd say keep Stephenson, Hamilton, Cingrani and Grgeorious. I'd deal Corcino if I had to, but would prefer dealing Lotzkar, Lamarre, Soto, H-Rod, etc. to bring in a platoon guy. David Dejesus is my first choice. Other sleepers that I think should be considered for cheap include Gerrardo Parra, Roger Bernadina, Quentin Berry, etc.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  8. #22
    SSG, Red Army Choir Guacarock's Avatar
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    Re: Centerfield 2013

    Jon Paul Morosi of Fox Sports tweets tonight that the Twins' Ben Revere is a trade candidate, but Minnesota might need to get a CF back, as Revere is their projected replacement for Span.

    Revere hits lefty, with a split of .294/.333/.342 in 2012, and 40 stolen bases. He has no power (he's gone 1064 plate appearances in the Majors without a home run -- longer than any other current player). But he certainly profiles as a speedy, possible table setter who might well be someone the Reds are targeting. His Home/Away and Vs. R/L batting splits are almost identical, and he got paid less than $500,000 in 2012.

    If he is indeed someone the Reds are pursuing, wonder who we'd be giving up in return? Seems likely Stubbs or Heisey, possibly a pitching prospect or bullpen arm.

  9. #23
    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: Centerfield 2013

    Twins seem desperate for some starting pitching, I wonder if Walt can't sell them on Leake.
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

  10. #24
    SSG, Red Army Choir Guacarock's Avatar
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    Re: Centerfield 2013

    Speculation at the Twins Daily blog http://twinsdaily.com/content.php?12...ade-Ben-Revere

    The long and short of it: Considerable speculation building that Revere also could be traded. Reds, Phillies, Braves or Devil Rays seen as the likely dance partners. Desired return: A cost-controlled starting pitcher.

    Money quote from Twins manager Ron Gardenhire. After emerging from a meeting with the team's brass at the Opryland Hotel in Nashville, Gardenhire tells MLB Network they were "trading my whole damn team."

    Also of note about Revere: Speed allows him to make many spectacular catches and patrol a lot of turf, but arm is weak. He graduated from high school in Lexington, Kentucky. Was Twins' First Round pick in 2007.

  11. #25
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    Re: Centerfield 2013

    I revere Revere.

    No, really.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

  12. #26
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    Re: Centerfield 2013

    Sign me up for Revere. I'd give em Leake.

  13. #27
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    Re: Centerfield 2013

    Ellsbury is the guy I want assuming Ludwick signs.

    He will likely cost less in talent than Fowler as he is a FA after the season. Reds can collect high draft picks with a qualifying offer he is sure to reject, and plug Billy Hamilton in for the next five years.

    If Ellsbury could be had for Leake, Stubbs, and a C-level prospect, pull the trigger Walt.

    Second choice would probably be DeJesus for a one-year platoon with Stubbs.
    Go BLUE!!!

  14. #28
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    Re: Centerfield 2013

    Revere is a great young CF prospect but hes not as good as the one we already have. I don't think it would make any sense to slide revere to LF once hamilton was ready, fowler I can maybe see but not revere. The last update I saw said that we are very close to signing Ludwick for 2 @14M which would mean that LF is locked in for the next two years. So I still don't think it makes any sense to acquire a young CF unless we don't think Hamilton can handle the job. If we can get someone cheap for a year to be an upgrade over stubbs then I'm all for that but after seeing what Victoriano got I'm not sure we can get someone like that. Stubbs was horrible last year but I think theres a decent chance that he bounces back to being a player that we can live with in CF until Hamilton is ready.

  15. #29
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    Re: Centerfield 2013

    Revere? I guess if we had him, he could come running in from CF yelling "The Cardinals are coming! The Cardinals are coming!"
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  16. #30
    Future Fame of Holler WildcatFan's Avatar
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    Re: Centerfield 2013

    Bonifacio may be available. That'd be a solid pickup.

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/1...medium=twitter
    "I never argue with people who say baseball is boring, because baseball is boring. And then, suddenly, it isn't. And that's what makes it great." - Joe Posnanski


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