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Thread: Centerfield 2013

  1. #76
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    Re: Centerfield 2013

    Threqad on the Sun Deck saying that Tracy Jones claimed tonight that the Reds & Red Sox were close to a deal that would send Jacoby Ellsbury to Cincy. Ostensibly, the return for Boston would be Stubbs and Corcino.

    Not sure if I'm buying it, but if this were the 2013 Cincinnati Reds, I wouldn't complain.

    CF Jacoby Ellsbury
    2B Brandon Phillips
    1B Joey Votto
    LF Ryan Ludwick
    RF Jay Bruce
    3B Todd Frazier
    SS Zach Cozart
    CA Ryan Hanigan

    IF Didi Gregorious/Emmanuel Burris
    IF Scott Rolen/Jack Hanrahan ?
    OF Chris Heisey
    OF Xavier Paul
    CA Devin Mesaraco

    S1 Jonny Cueto
    S2 Mat Latos
    S3 Aroldis Chapman
    S4 Homer Bailey
    S5 Bronson Arroyo
    LR Mike Leake
    MR Sam Lecure/Logan Ondrusek/Alfredo Simon
    R7 Nick Massett/Jose Arredondo
    L7 Tony Cingrani
    R8 JJ Hoover
    L8 Sean Marshall
    CL Jonathan Broxton
    Last edited by corkedbat; 12-05-2012 at 10:27 PM.

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  3. #77
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: Centerfield 2013

    Reds lose Arroyo after 2013. Reds will still have Latos, Cueto, Bailey, Leake, and Chapman, with Corcino and Cingrani immediately in the wings, and Stephenson a few years further out.

    Reds might see some deadline offers next season if Corcino and Cingrani rake in triple A.

    Let the bidders come to us later if the offers aren't in our favor now.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

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  4. #78
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    Re: Centerfield 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    Reds lose Arroyo after 2013. Reds will still have Latos, Cueto, Bailey, Leake, and Chapman, with Corcino and Cingrani immediately in the wings, and Stephenson a few years further out.

    Reds might see some deadline offers next season if Corcino and Cingrani rake in triple A.

    Let the bidders come to us later if the offers aren't in our favor now.
    I've said for sometime that Corcino and Cingrani would probably battle for Arroyo's spot come ST 2014. They still may fight for a roster spot in 2014, but I'm not as certain that it will be Arroyo's spot anymore. While letting him walk after 2013would probably be the smart play (and probably will happen), I'm not so sure that Walt and/or BCast don't offer him another contract if he has a solid season this year. Could make them more comfortable in dealing Corcino or Cingrani this offseason.

  5. #79
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: Centerfield 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    For the Reds to rest on their laurels would be a terrible, terrible mistake.

    They won 97 games but played the Cubs and Astros about 36 times. They were fortunate to play in a division with two of the weakest teams in baseball, and the Reds took full advantage.

    The Reds also had an amazing steak of good luck with the health of their starting pitching. And their closer was Hall of Fame quality, at least for one year. Next season they may have to rely more on offense.

    With the Reds' OBP needs and failures against RHP, I just can't see the Stubbs/Heisey tandem in CF again.

    How the Reds go about fixing it is a good question, there are alternatives, but sitting on their hands to me isn't a good option.
    Again, I'm fine with improvements, but I don't want to see marginal improvements that hurt the long-term goals. Trading away a top pitching prospects (or a very solid mlb starter) to get a "possible" improvement out of CF/Leadoff is not an improvement in my book. It may be a step forward for 2013, but it's 2 steps backwards for beyond 2013. This team can STILL make changes midseason. After we've got a better idea of what Aroldis brings to the table, where we stand on Homer/Mat's contracts, etc, etc, etc.

    Most of the guys I've seen put forward here in regards to the CF slot are big question marks in my opinion. Fowler looks to be a mile-high mirage. Span has very limited power and hits for a modest average (a possible improvement over Stubbs...and quite possibly a HUGE step backwards). Victorino, color me unimpressed. Upton I think is overpriced dramatically because I don't see him maintaining what he's done. Pagan is a Span clone...screams role-player to me to be honest. I don't think any of them (outside of Upton) has the ceiling that Stubbs has.

    A legitimate improvement like a Choo is more than welcome...but it'll cost a fortune. And unless an extension is figured out, a 1 year rental that costs us future wins with the prospect cost, is a net loss in my eyes.

    Basically put, thus far I haven't seen a realistic deal put forth here that isn't us overpaying or isn't so unrealistic that it's laughable. I hope Jocketty pulls a rabbit out of his hat, but if he doesn't, I still think this team as constructed wins back-to-back central crowns.
    2014 predictions:
    99-63 WS champs (Cards take 2nd WC, Mil 3rd, Pit 4th, Chi 5th)
    Bruce/Votto neck and neck MVP race (neither takes it)
    Bailey CYA winner
    Hamilton ROY & GG

  6. #80
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: Centerfield 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    Reds lose Arroyo after 2013. Reds will still have Latos, Cueto, Bailey, Leake, and Chapman, with Corcino and Cingrani immediately in the wings, and Stephenson a few years further out.

    Reds might see some deadline offers next season if Corcino and Cingrani rake in triple A.

    Let the bidders come to us later if the offers aren't in our favor now.
    Quote Originally Posted by corkedbat View Post
    I've said for sometime that Corcino and Cingrani would probably battle for Arroyo's spot come ST 2014. They still may fight for a roster spot in 2014, but I'm not as certain that it will be Arroyo's spot anymore. While letting him walk after 2013would probably be the smart play (and probably will happen), I'm not so sure that Walt and/or BCast don't offer him another contract if he has a solid season this year. Could make them more comfortable in dealing Corcino or Cingrani this offseason.
    Agree with both of these. Only difference is I wait to see what Bronson, Latos & Bailey's contract plans are before I do anything with Corcino or Cingrani. If Bronson gets extended (and Latos/Bailey) I'm much more open to dealing BOTH C's...and definitely one. But if we can't extend Homer...and Bronson opts to leave...we're going to wish we had both the kids. I think all 3 of those contract issues will be dealt with sometime by midseason...or at least have been talked about so we have some clue of where we stand.
    2014 predictions:
    99-63 WS champs (Cards take 2nd WC, Mil 3rd, Pit 4th, Chi 5th)
    Bruce/Votto neck and neck MVP race (neither takes it)
    Bailey CYA winner
    Hamilton ROY & GG

  7. #81
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    Re: Centerfield 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_ View Post
    The CF situation is certainly cause for concern, but I think Stubbs bounces back some. And if he's hitting lower in the order, I think he'll be fine.
    Stubbs has forfeited the right to face RHPs. He's overmatched against them, always has been. That's not going to bounce back because it's a skill he doesn't have.

    Quote Originally Posted by corkedbat
    Thread on the Sun Deck saying that Tracy Jones claimed tonight that the Reds & Red Sox were close to a deal that would send Jacoby Ellsbury to Cincy. Ostensibly, the return for Boston would be Stubbs and Corcino.
    I'd be mildly stunned if that went down. Got major misgivings about Ellsbury, but that wouldn't be such a bad price.

    Anyway, let's see if this rumor gains any legs tomorrow.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

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  8. #82
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    Re: Centerfield 2013

    Ellsbury, 29, has a career 162-game slash line of .297/ .349/ .442/ .791, with 53 SB and 12 CS, 16 HR, and 73 RBI. He's the typical Jocketty type, in that he's shown great talent in the past, but has fallen on hard times due to injury. If it's for Stubbs and Corcino, this is a no-brainer.
    "You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
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  9. #83
    Public Enemy #1 Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: Centerfield 2013

    Honestly, has Tracy Jones ever been right about any rumors, ever?
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

  10. #84
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    Re: Centerfield 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Ellsbury, 29, has a career 162-game slash line of .297/ .349/ .442/ .791, with 53 SB and 12 CS, 16 HR, and 73 RBI. He's the typical Jocketty type, in that he's shown great talent in the past, but has fallen on hard times due to injury. If it's for Stubbs and Corcino, this is a no-brainer.
    Yes, classic Jocketty acquisition -- buying low on a legit big-time talent and not being afraid of seeing him walk (and willing to try to sign him if it works out). It's one of many reasons the Ellsbury talk rings a little true to me.

  11. #85
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Centerfield 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Last year was, arguably, the best Reds pitching team most of us have ever seen. I'm not sure it gets much better than that. The run differential and wins total was a result of run prevention. The offense was slightly below average.

    And the most glaring hole for the offense was production from the leadoff hitters (if you want to look at it from a lineup perspective) and CF (if you want to look at it from a positional perspective). Getting a CF who can hit at the top of the lineup fills both holes. It's pretty imperative that Walt get this done.
    I'm not totally disagreeing, but assuming they sign Ludwick, there will be no need to hit Phillips cleanup, he can leadoff. Frasier also has established himself as a presentable #6 hitter. The Reds now have the luxury of batting Stubbs #8, just like in the playoffs. Now, we can expect there to be times during the year when Dusty gives Stubbs another chance at the top of the order, but having Phillips at the top of the order for the entire season (as opposed to cleanup) fixes one tablesetter slot.

    I think I could live with Cozart in the #2 slot.

    So I would love to get a leadoff CF, but I don't see it as imperative, if Ludwick is signed. As far as bang-for-the-buck, the Reds might be better off spending resources on another bullpen arm as opposed to trading/signing a CF.
    Of course, the object of the game is not to maximize bang for the buck though

    Ellsbury rental would be a dream .
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  12. #86
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    Re: Centerfield 2013

    Highly unlikely this will happen, IMO. I don't see the Red Sox wanting Stubbs -- they have Victorino behind Ellsbury, Jackie Bradley in AA and rising, and Ryan Kalish still hanging around. Acquiring Stubbs would just add confusion. And I doubt Corcino carries the day against any other pitching they could get for Ellsbury.

    Ellsbury makes great sense for the Reds, but I think they'd have to give up more pitching to get him.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini

  13. #87
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Centerfield 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by lollipopcurve View Post
    I don't see the Red Sox wanting Stubbs
    I'd normally agree, but he bats right-handed and can hit a few HRs. The Sox can't scratch that itch enough. Plus, Bradley is at least a year away.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  14. #88
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    Re: Centerfield 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Ellsbury, 29, has a career 162-game slash line of .297/ .349/ .442/ .791, with 53 SB and 12 CS, 16 HR, and 73 RBI. He's the typical Jocketty type, in that he's shown great talent in the past, but has fallen on hard times due to injury. If it's for Stubbs and Corcino, this is a no-brainer.
    It takes him three seasons to play 162 games. His near-MVP season is the exception to his otherwise good but not great career.

    That said, I'm fine with Stubbs and Corcino. But not for Bailey and certainly not Latos (as Olney reported was the asking price).
    "The players make the manager, it's never the other way." - Sparky Anderson

  15. #89
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    Re: Centerfield 2013

    The asking price for Fowler was reportedly Minor and either Teheran or Delgado.

    That is akin to Leake and Cingrani. Unless Pomeranz is coming back also, I'd pass.
    Go BLUE!!!

  16. #90
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    Re: Centerfield 2013

    I'd normally agree, but he bats right-handed and can hit a few HRs. The Sox can't scratch that itch enough. Plus, Bradley is at least a year away.
    I think the Gomes-Napoli-Ross signings were primarily about character. They like the RH power, I know, but my sense is that they're desperate to get rah-rah blue collar guys, and Stubbs doesn't fit there, either. Problem with Bradley is that he'll be ready while they would still control Stubbs for a couple years. I really think the Sox would want to maximize the pitching return for Ellsbury, or get a legit catching prospect.
    "Baseball is a very, very complex business. It's more of a people business than most businesses." - Bob Castellini


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