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Thread: Chapman to start? Maybe not

  1. #46
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman to start? Maybe not

    Quote Originally Posted by RANDY IN INDY View Post
    Bronson Arroyo: "Chapman starting will be very difficult."

    http://cincinnati.com/blogs/sports/2...ery-difficult/

    Totally agree with Bronson.
    Sure it will. If it was easy, anyone could do it. This isn't Chapman's first rodeo. He's started in Cuba and in the minors. He has to have some idea on how to pace himself and throw another pitch.

    As for a 3rd pitch, there have been scores of pitchers who were able to be successful with a great fastball and a breaking pitch or changeup. It would be nice if he could master a 3rd pitch but as hard as he throws, it may not be necessary.

    I wonder what would happen if he just decided to throw a BP fastball up to the plate once or twice a game.
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  3. #47
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman to start? Maybe not

    Arroyo's statement is completely fair. And I don't think Reds brass disagree with his assessment. But you don't know if you don't try. Chapman certainly won't develop reliable 2nd and 3rd offerings pitching out of the pen. That he's so physically gifted is precisely why he should be given the chance to develop those skills.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  4. #48
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman to start? Maybe not

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    LeCure too?


    I tend to listen to pitchers when they talk about pitching myself, learn something everytime
    I think all I hear from them is to speak to fans with unrealistic expectations. Geesh, those two fit in around here. I think it is a strawman to use the "unrealistic expectations" and "needs a third pitch" argument to keep him out of the rotation. He has a plus fastball and slider, showed a change last year. I think the talent is what makes an extended rotation audition the easy call, not the hand wringing decision that so many want to make it.
    Can't win with 'em

    Can't win without 'em

  5. #49
    Member SidneySlicker's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman to start? Maybe not

    I think trying to move Arolids Chapman is probably the right move, but I'm far from thinking that he's a lock to be an excellent or even a very good starter. If he can become a dominant starter he has more value to the team than in the pen.

  6. #50
    Moderator RedlegJake's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman to start? Maybe not

    As a starter Chapman will throw a change. He was throwing one that was probably adequate before he went to the pen. He only needs it a few times a game anyway. Throwing that slider for strikes is far more important imo. I expect AC will succeed albeit with some bumps. I expect a rather uneven season this year and I hope his arm stays healthy - a bigger worry for me.

  7. #51
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman to start? Maybe not

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    But you don't know if you don't try. .
    Bingo
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  8. #52
    Member 757690's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman to start? Maybe not

    And Dusty is at it again...

    http://www.foxsportsohio.com/02/16/1...15&feedID=8891

    Baker made a sharp point of interest: ďWeíre in the same boat as last year when he possible, when he POSSIBLY could be one of your top starters. There is a lot you donít know yet.

    ďIím the one speaking, but this is an organizational decision. This makes me feel a little uneasy. Iím not the whole organization. When asked to speak about it, Iíll have a vote.Ē
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  9. #53
    Member membengal's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman to start? Maybe not

    I think we can all just presume that Dusty has reservations, others don't, and it will be play out over the next month or two. Not really worth parsing over Dusty's every word on the subject when his stance is known. He would rather go with the known (Chapman closing) than the unknown (can he sucessfully convert). Given that he is responsible for this team winning, I understand his worry. Walt is likely bigger picture on this.

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  11. #54
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman to start? Maybe not

    Guys just relax. We have spring training so that potentially season/career altering decisions can be made based upon very small samples in unreliable contexts.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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  13. #55
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    Re: Chapman to start? Maybe not

    If Chapman doesn't start then signing Broxton for 21 million over 3 years will be one of the dumbest, short-sighted, and borderline fireable signings ever.

    There is NO EXCUSE for a team with the Reds budget to have 18 million per year tied up between Marshall, Broxton and Chapman.

    Hell, the Reds could put some of that toward actually keeping Choo. I cannot fathom Jocketty lets this happen without trading Broxton or Chapman.

  14. #56
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman to start? Maybe not

    Signing Broxton for 3 years really wasn't one of the smartest things ever done to begin with....
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  15. #57
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman to start? Maybe not

    Quote Originally Posted by NeilHamburger View Post
    If Chapman doesn't start then signing Broxton for 21 million over 3 years will be one of the dumbest, short-sighted, and borderline fireable signings ever.

    There is NO EXCUSE for a team with the Reds budget to have 18 million per year tied up between Marshall, Broxton and Chapman.

    Hell, the Reds could put some of that toward actually keeping Choo. I cannot fathom Jocketty lets this happen without trading Broxton or Chapman.
    The Reds do not have $18MM "per year" locked up with those guys. That is kind of misleading.

    Also, at this stage Walt can do whatever he wants as far as I am concerned. He has my trust.

  16. #58
    malingered here too long malcontent's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman to start? Maybe not

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Signing Broxton for 3 years really wasn't one of the smartest things ever done to begin with....
    Agreed, and I like Broxton.

    It surprises me sometimes the extent to which Jocketty goes to extend the guys he has in-house...as opposed to dealing for or signing new blood.

  17. #59
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    Re: Chapman to start? Maybe not

    This topic is so overblown.

    Sometimes fans have an idea that the ballclub flatly rejects. That's a reason for frustration. Here, the Reds are obviously strongly considering Chappy as a starter. So what's the complaint?

    And the team won 97 games last year, if he winds up in the bullpen it isn't a tragedy. It's a formula that worked and if after a trial period the Reds conclude he belongs in the pen, so be it, he'll still help the ballclub.

    I'm not yet a strong believer in Broxton, so I'm cautious in my view of his deal. But it's worth money to have a strong late inning bullpen. The idea around here that your key relievers somehow should spring from the earth - and be paid minimally - is not something I accept.

    Most ballclubs would be thrilled to have Chapman on their teams, as a starter OR a closer. I feel that way, and if the Reds decide he should reliever, at least he's on the team playing an important role. That's all I ask.
    Last edited by Kc61; 02-16-2013 at 02:53 PM.

  18. #60
    Member RadfordVA's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman to start? Maybe not

    I think a lot of times people forget that these decisions are not made as impersonal as a video game would be. I have a feeling a lot of this is probably Chapmans decision as anyone. If he is dead set on having his chance to start then the team does not have much choice in letting him. You cant simply tell him you are a closer whether you like it or not, then you run the risk of losing him mentally for either role. While I think it is the best decision to have him attempt to start. I feel Chapman and his agents input on this topic is seriously underrated. You know they see the difference in starters contracts and closers. Could be difference of 10 million a year.


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