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Thread: Why are we [the fans] so desperate to make a trade?

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  1. #1
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    Why are we [the fans] so desperate to make a trade?

    I'm sort of confused by this.

    The reds won 97 games last year...and had plenty of "bad luck" games like the valdez passed ball between his legs against the astros that resulted in a loss.

    If a few more games went the reds way, they surely could've reached the 100 game winning plateau and beyond.

    The core of the team is still in tact..yes Ludwick might be gone, but last I checked he's an aging veteran who had a great year, in career of many downyears. He can easily revert back to his good old San Diego days in a heart beat.

    Than there's all this talk for Upton, and Victorino, and every other lead off hitter imaginable. Honestly, why not just go the cheap route and just maybe get someone (like another had mentioned) like Eric Chavez, or maybe even Youklis to play 3rd base, and just have Fraizer move to leftfield if the reds can't sign anybody?

    I know the reds need a leadoff hitter. But I think trading teams are well aware of this as well, and would surely spike the price up, and would have to start with Billy Hamilton and up. I just think that this team will go as far as it's pitching takes it...maybe add another solid bullpen piece? Maybe go after another starter?

    I don't know, but for now, I think this team is alright standing pat as long as they make a few minor moves here and there. The core is still here. Chapman is still here. Cueto is still here. Latos is still here. Marshall, Broxton is still here. Votto, Phillips, Bruce is still here. The team is still here. So I truly don't see (unless it's a major injury prone season) why this same team can't win 90+ games again next year, without needed to make some blockbuster move, just for the sake of making a blockbuster move.

  2. #2
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    Re: Why are we [the fans] so desperate to make a trade?

    I agree completely. I think we should resign ludwick, sign a budget CF that will get us through until Hamilton is ready, and work on extending our core players.

    No need for a blockbuster deal.

  3. #3
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    Re: Why are we [the fans] so desperate to make a trade?

    Maybe because that is what teams try to do in the offseason, improve themselves. Call me crazy but if you can improve your team, why wouldn't you?
    Zero chance the Reds miss the playoffs!

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    Re: Why are we [the fans] so desperate to make a trade?

    Because the easiest way to improve the offense (and team) going forward to replace the black hole of suck known as Drew Stubbs in CF. There are no bargain options in the FA market so you need to look at potential trades.

    Denard Span was a big get by the Nationals because the market is thin and expensive.

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    Re: Why are we [the fans] so desperate to make a trade?

    i don't put much stock into games that could go one way or the other, for every ball that went through valdez's legs or whatever, you could easily make the case for a game that the reds won that the other team should have, i think those are a wash in the end

    people probably just want to see the offense improve because it was somewhat of a liability last year, and we see other teams around us improving. or maybe its just off season boredom, baseball needs to come back

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    Re: Why are we [the fans] so desperate to make a trade?

    The strength of this team last year was the starting pitching. Our best 5 SP remained healthy all year, which isn't likely to happen again. There were serious problems with the lineup. The top of the lineup was historically bad last year and should be addressed, probably via trade given the Reds' budget restrictions.

  7. #7
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    Re: Why are we [the fans] so desperate to make a trade?

    Because the Reds are so close and they have the assets to improve the team greatly through a trade.

  8. #8
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    Re: Why are we [the fans] so desperate to make a trade?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTruck View Post

    I know the reds need a leadoff hitter. But I think trading teams are well aware of this as well, and would surely spike the price up, and would have to start with Billy Hamilton and up. I just think that this team will go as far as it's pitching takes it...maybe add another solid bullpen piece? Maybe go after another starter?
    Fair post, sir, though I don't know that leadoff trade talks "would have to start with Billy Hamilton," unless you are pretty much exclusively talking about Justin Upton. And I agree that I think proposals for him are probably a little unrealistic, anyway.

    I definitely don't think some mega blockbuster needs to happen and the Reds would probably shoot themselves in the foot if they tried to go that route. But, as an example, Denard Span was just traded for Alex Meyer, who has value more in line with Stephenson or (maybe?) Cingrani than Billy Hamilton.

    Our leadoff situation is an absolute mess. It needs to be improved. It seems to me personally, that it would be unwise to punt finding a solution for that for next season, and maybe 2014, because we're putting all our eggs into the "Billy Hamilton is definitely going to the solution to all those ills" basket.

    People disagree here too, but I just don't think the team has the money to solve that question through free agency (assuming they nab Ludwick, anyway). So I won't say I'm desperate to make a trade, especially for one of the elite names being thrown around. But I will be a little disheartened if nothing is done to bolster that glaring weakness on the team in some capacity. It just so happens that the most attractive options are already (as you might imagine) under control by another club.

  9. #9
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    Re: Why are we [the fans] so desperate to make a trade?

    I definitely don't think some mega blockbuster needs to happen and the Reds would probably shoot themselves in the foot if they tried to go that route.
    Like those trades for Latos and Marshall last winter.
    Zero chance the Reds miss the playoffs!

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    Re: Why are we [the fans] so desperate to make a trade?

    Quote Originally Posted by texasdave View Post
    Like those trades for Latos and Marshall last winter.
    The Reds were coming off of a 79 win season last winter and had a farm system loaded with blocked prospects. Now they are coming off of a 97 win season with a less loaded farm system and their best prospects have a clear path to the majors. Big difference.

  11. #11
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    Re: Why are we [the fans] so desperate to make a trade?

    Quote Originally Posted by texasdave View Post
    Like those trades for Latos and Marshall last winter.
    Different circumstances entirely, haha. We clearly, clearly needed a top-of-the-rotation arm last offseason and I was thrilled we got him.

    Don't know if I'd call the Marshall one a blockbuster, though. Honestly, that's more in line with what I could see the Reds parting with to improve the leadoff situation if that clarifies things a little bit. Leake+ some prospects, maybe? Or pitching prospects with higher upside?

  12. #12
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    Re: Why are we [the fans] so desperate to make a trade?

    Quote Originally Posted by Larkin88 View Post
    Different circumstances entirely, haha. We clearly, clearly needed a top-of-the-rotation arm last offseason and I was thrilled we got him.

    Don't know if I'd call the Marshall one a blockbuster, though. Honestly, that's more in line with what I could see the Reds parting with to improve the leadoff situation if that clarifies things a little bit. Leake+ some prospects, maybe? Or pitching prospects with higher upside?
    Not really. We clearly need a top-of-the-lineup player who can get on base in front of Joey Votto. Unless you think that having a .254 OBP out of the leadoff spot is not much of a problem.
    Zero chance the Reds miss the playoffs!

  13. #13
    Member Larkin88's Avatar
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    Re: Why are we [the fans] so desperate to make a trade?

    Quote Originally Posted by texasdave View Post
    Not really. We clearly need a top-of-the-lineup player who can get on base in front of Joey Votto. Unless you think that having a .254 OBP out of the leadoff spot is not much of a problem.
    I think you should know that is precisely not what I am saying, Dave, but thank you for putting words in my mouth. You and I have exchanged all sorts of thoughts on potential improvements through trades... but remember, we aren't allowed to trade pitchers? We just have to do it through free agency from the money fairy Walt and company found in the mystical forest of revenue sharing.

    Even in this thread, I said "I will be a little disheartened if nothing is done to bolster that glaring weakness on the team in some capacity. It just so happens that the most attractive options are already (as you might imagine) under control by another club." You're right. Clearly I think having a .254 OBP out of the leadoff spot is not much of a problem.

    If you don't think the Reds were in greater need of a drastic improvement to their pitching last season than they are leadoff going into this season, that's fine. But I'm not going to waste time arguing that point since we fundamentally seem to be on different pages.

    You keep referencing Span over and over. Did it take Volquez, Grandal, Alonso and Boxberger for the Nats to get him?
    Last edited by Larkin88; 12-05-2012 at 01:36 PM.

  14. #14
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    Re: Why are we [the fans] so desperate to make a trade?

    Honestly, that is what off-seasons are for. You step back, evaluate your club and then try to strengthen any weaknesses. Every other team is doing the same. Washington, who I feel was the better club in 2012, has already snagged Span and Haren.
    Zero chance the Reds miss the playoffs!

  15. #15
    Member joshua's Avatar
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    I don't understand why everyone is dead set on changing the rotation. Chapman is a gamble as a starter and needs another pitch, but is a stud at closer, we had a bad ass rotation last year that got lucky to avoid injury, and two guys in the cusp of the majors for starter depth.

    What I can understand is trying to get someone at leadoff to replace the blackhole at the plate known.as Stubbs. I could also understand trying to acquire a backup catcher after Mesoraco's dissapointing year.
    We don't need a blockbuster trade, what we need is to tweak the lineup a bit.

    The bad news is that we have some.holes at CF, backup 3B, backup catcher...the good news is that we have guys almost ready to come up and fill them (Hamilton, HRod, Mesoraco). We only need to acquire one or two year solutions.


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