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Thread: Why are we [the fans] so desperate to make a trade?

  1. #1
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    Why are we [the fans] so desperate to make a trade?

    I'm sort of confused by this.

    The reds won 97 games last year...and had plenty of "bad luck" games like the valdez passed ball between his legs against the astros that resulted in a loss.

    If a few more games went the reds way, they surely could've reached the 100 game winning plateau and beyond.

    The core of the team is still in tact..yes Ludwick might be gone, but last I checked he's an aging veteran who had a great year, in career of many downyears. He can easily revert back to his good old San Diego days in a heart beat.

    Than there's all this talk for Upton, and Victorino, and every other lead off hitter imaginable. Honestly, why not just go the cheap route and just maybe get someone (like another had mentioned) like Eric Chavez, or maybe even Youklis to play 3rd base, and just have Fraizer move to leftfield if the reds can't sign anybody?

    I know the reds need a leadoff hitter. But I think trading teams are well aware of this as well, and would surely spike the price up, and would have to start with Billy Hamilton and up. I just think that this team will go as far as it's pitching takes it...maybe add another solid bullpen piece? Maybe go after another starter?

    I don't know, but for now, I think this team is alright standing pat as long as they make a few minor moves here and there. The core is still here. Chapman is still here. Cueto is still here. Latos is still here. Marshall, Broxton is still here. Votto, Phillips, Bruce is still here. The team is still here. So I truly don't see (unless it's a major injury prone season) why this same team can't win 90+ games again next year, without needed to make some blockbuster move, just for the sake of making a blockbuster move.

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  3. #2
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    Re: Why are we [the fans] so desperate to make a trade?

    I agree completely. I think we should resign ludwick, sign a budget CF that will get us through until Hamilton is ready, and work on extending our core players.

    No need for a blockbuster deal.

  4. #3
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    Re: Why are we [the fans] so desperate to make a trade?

    Maybe because that is what teams try to do in the offseason, improve themselves. Call me crazy but if you can improve your team, why wouldn't you?
    Zero chance the Reds miss the playoffs!

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    Re: Why are we [the fans] so desperate to make a trade?

    i don't put much stock into games that could go one way or the other, for every ball that went through valdez's legs or whatever, you could easily make the case for a game that the reds won that the other team should have, i think those are a wash in the end

    people probably just want to see the offense improve because it was somewhat of a liability last year, and we see other teams around us improving. or maybe its just off season boredom, baseball needs to come back

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    Re: Why are we [the fans] so desperate to make a trade?

    The strength of this team last year was the starting pitching. Our best 5 SP remained healthy all year, which isn't likely to happen again. There were serious problems with the lineup. The top of the lineup was historically bad last year and should be addressed, probably via trade given the Reds' budget restrictions.

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    Re: Why are we [the fans] so desperate to make a trade?

    Because the Reds are so close and they have the assets to improve the team greatly through a trade.

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    Re: Why are we [the fans] so desperate to make a trade?

    Because the easiest way to improve the offense (and team) going forward to replace the black hole of suck known as Drew Stubbs in CF. There are no bargain options in the FA market so you need to look at potential trades.

    Denard Span was a big get by the Nationals because the market is thin and expensive.

  9. #8
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    Re: Why are we [the fans] so desperate to make a trade?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTruck View Post

    I know the reds need a leadoff hitter. But I think trading teams are well aware of this as well, and would surely spike the price up, and would have to start with Billy Hamilton and up. I just think that this team will go as far as it's pitching takes it...maybe add another solid bullpen piece? Maybe go after another starter?
    Fair post, sir, though I don't know that leadoff trade talks "would have to start with Billy Hamilton," unless you are pretty much exclusively talking about Justin Upton. And I agree that I think proposals for him are probably a little unrealistic, anyway.

    I definitely don't think some mega blockbuster needs to happen and the Reds would probably shoot themselves in the foot if they tried to go that route. But, as an example, Denard Span was just traded for Alex Meyer, who has value more in line with Stephenson or (maybe?) Cingrani than Billy Hamilton.

    Our leadoff situation is an absolute mess. It needs to be improved. It seems to me personally, that it would be unwise to punt finding a solution for that for next season, and maybe 2014, because we're putting all our eggs into the "Billy Hamilton is definitely going to the solution to all those ills" basket.

    People disagree here too, but I just don't think the team has the money to solve that question through free agency (assuming they nab Ludwick, anyway). So I won't say I'm desperate to make a trade, especially for one of the elite names being thrown around. But I will be a little disheartened if nothing is done to bolster that glaring weakness on the team in some capacity. It just so happens that the most attractive options are already (as you might imagine) under control by another club.

  10. #9
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    Re: Why are we [the fans] so desperate to make a trade?

    I definitely don't think some mega blockbuster needs to happen and the Reds would probably shoot themselves in the foot if they tried to go that route.
    Like those trades for Latos and Marshall last winter.
    Zero chance the Reds miss the playoffs!

  11. #10
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    Re: Why are we [the fans] so desperate to make a trade?

    Honestly, that is what off-seasons are for. You step back, evaluate your club and then try to strengthen any weaknesses. Every other team is doing the same. Washington, who I feel was the better club in 2012, has already snagged Span and Haren.
    Zero chance the Reds miss the playoffs!

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    I don't understand why everyone is dead set on changing the rotation. Chapman is a gamble as a starter and needs another pitch, but is a stud at closer, we had a bad ass rotation last year that got lucky to avoid injury, and two guys in the cusp of the majors for starter depth.

    What I can understand is trying to get someone at leadoff to replace the blackhole at the plate known.as Stubbs. I could also understand trying to acquire a backup catcher after Mesoraco's dissapointing year.
    We don't need a blockbuster trade, what we need is to tweak the lineup a bit.

    The bad news is that we have some.holes at CF, backup 3B, backup catcher...the good news is that we have guys almost ready to come up and fill them (Hamilton, HRod, Mesoraco). We only need to acquire one or two year solutions.

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    Re: Why are we [the fans] so desperate to make a trade?

    Totally agree. I wouldn't trade anyone of significance unless we are getting top notch talent in return. And I don't see anyone really available that fits that.

    The guys I see as "expendable" are Stubbs and Leake. I was so disappointed in Leake this year, and I'm so done with Stubbs.

    I'd prefer they solidify the bench. Cairo and Valdez are thankfully gone. I liked Miggy and think he'd make a great coach, but he just couldn't hack it this year. I'd love to see them sign Youk or Keppinger, especially if they are going to let Rolen play one more year.

    Please don't overpay for Ludwick. Two years tops. I'm not sold on his late season rebirth. And I don't want to see that money hurting us down the road. Frazier in Left if not.

    Lead off is a must though. I would love to see BH have a great Spring, but I also don't see any reason to rush him. He's got to get at least half a season playing CF under his belt before he's MLB ready.

    I hate to say this, but is there any way, JHamilton signs a one year deal? The longer he goes unsigned, it could happen. If they signed him, I'd go back to the Bruce in the leadoff idea.

    Bruce RF
    Phillips 2B
    Votto 1B
    J. Hamilton CF
    Ludwick/Frazier LF
    Rolen/Youk/Frazier 3B
    Hanigan/Mez C
    Cozart SS

    Bench:

    Keppinger 2B/SS/3B
    Rolen/Youk 1B/3b
    Heisey OF
    Paul OF
    Hannigan/Mez C
    Gregorious SS/2B

    I know there's one extra guy here. Youk and Keppinger probably can't happen. And Youk is too expensive. But I still think he'd like to retire a Red. Having Rolen and Youk would bring a lot of power to the bench. Keppinger is still a true hitter. Maybe Didi stays at AAA. I'm sure there will be room for all at some point.

    11 pitchers
    Last edited by Red in Atl; 12-05-2012 at 12:32 PM.

  14. #13
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    Re: Why are we [the fans] so desperate to make a trade?

    the reds were active late in the offseason with trades. Just be patient. Im all for doing anything to improve the club. I also dont want to just give pieces away just for the sake of saying we made a move.

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    Re: Why are we [the fans] so desperate to make a trade?

    Quote Originally Posted by texasdave View Post
    Like those trades for Latos and Marshall last winter.
    The Reds were coming off of a 79 win season last winter and had a farm system loaded with blocked prospects. Now they are coming off of a 97 win season with a less loaded farm system and their best prospects have a clear path to the majors. Big difference.

  16. #15
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    Re: Why are we [the fans] so desperate to make a trade?

    Quote Originally Posted by texasdave View Post
    Like those trades for Latos and Marshall last winter.
    Different circumstances entirely, haha. We clearly, clearly needed a top-of-the-rotation arm last offseason and I was thrilled we got him.

    Don't know if I'd call the Marshall one a blockbuster, though. Honestly, that's more in line with what I could see the Reds parting with to improve the leadoff situation if that clarifies things a little bit. Leake+ some prospects, maybe? Or pitching prospects with higher upside?


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