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Thread: Why are we [the fans] so desperate to make a trade?

  1. #16
    ZCTRMTP!!!!! texasdave's Avatar
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    Re: Why are we [the fans] so desperate to make a trade?

    The beginning of free-agent signings and the Winter Meetings is like Christmas morning to baseball fans. Of course they want to open that big box with red bow on the top and see what is inside. It would be like telling a kid to wait until later that day because the gift is going to be the same whenver they open it.

    The off-season represents hope, hope of finding that last piece of the puzzle that is going to bring a World Championship. If someone is not anxious to see his/her team make improvements at this time of year, I have to wonder.
    A summer watching a bad Reds' team, is still a pretty good summer.

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  3. #17
    ZCTRMTP!!!!! texasdave's Avatar
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    Re: Why are we [the fans] so desperate to make a trade?

    Quote Originally Posted by Larkin88 View Post
    Different circumstances entirely, haha. We clearly, clearly needed a top-of-the-rotation arm last offseason and I was thrilled we got him.

    Don't know if I'd call the Marshall one a blockbuster, though. Honestly, that's more in line with what I could see the Reds parting with to improve the leadoff situation if that clarifies things a little bit. Leake+ some prospects, maybe? Or pitching prospects with higher upside?
    Not really. We clearly need a top-of-the-lineup player who can get on base in front of Joey Votto. Unless you think that having a .254 OBP out of the leadoff spot is not much of a problem.
    A summer watching a bad Reds' team, is still a pretty good summer.

  4. #18
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    Re: Why are we [the fans] so desperate to make a trade?

    Quote Originally Posted by texasdave View Post
    Not really. We clearly need a top-of-the-lineup player who can get on base in front of Joey Votto. Unless you think that having a .254 OBP out of the leadoff spot is not much of a problem.
    I think you should know that is precisely not what I am saying, Dave, but thank you for putting words in my mouth. You and I have exchanged all sorts of thoughts on potential improvements through trades... but remember, we aren't allowed to trade pitchers? We just have to do it through free agency from the money fairy Walt and company found in the mystical forest of revenue sharing.

    Even in this thread, I said "I will be a little disheartened if nothing is done to bolster that glaring weakness on the team in some capacity. It just so happens that the most attractive options are already (as you might imagine) under control by another club." You're right. Clearly I think having a .254 OBP out of the leadoff spot is not much of a problem.

    If you don't think the Reds were in greater need of a drastic improvement to their pitching last season than they are leadoff going into this season, that's fine. But I'm not going to waste time arguing that point since we fundamentally seem to be on different pages.

    You keep referencing Span over and over. Did it take Volquez, Grandal, Alonso and Boxberger for the Nats to get him?
    Last edited by Larkin88; 12-05-2012 at 01:36 PM.

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    Re: Why are we [the fans] so desperate to make a trade?

    It seems everyone is really on board with trading Leake, and while I wouldn't necessarily be opposed I would like to point out some things about him that many seem to overlook... Even though he has had some struggles in GABP- as should really be expected of most 22,23,24 year olds- he still gets nearly 50% groundballs and has pitched to a career era on the road of 3.74 and it has never been over 3.8- very consistent production over 224 innings away from home- trade him away and he is a guy who is nearly a lock to throw up a 3.8 era or maybe less... Look what Trevor Cahill got in a trade last year- he and Leake are very similiar pitchers and I would imagine they should have very close to equal value... This is something that should be taken into consideration when moving him... Also these new contracts- Jeremy Guthrie just landed a $25 million deal... Leake may make half that over the next 3 years... He should be a very valuable trade asset because of these things and if moved it should only be for a player who can provide an immediate upgrade in a position of need... Otherwise he needs to stay. Yes, he deserves a rotation spot, and it would be uncool to put him in the pen or Louisville, but that's what happens on very good teams sometimes.

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    Re: Why are we [the fans] so desperate to make a trade?

    As good as this team's record was, there are holes to fill. Money is tight. Trades are more feasible on a tight budget. Now, if you are talking about one of these "Bruce, Chapman and Hamilton for Stanton" then, yeah, you're right, it's a waste of time.

  7. #21
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    Re: Why are we [the fans] so desperate to make a trade?

    This team would have won close to 110 Games in 2012 had they had a Lead-Off Hitter and Johnny Cueto would've Won 20 Games and probably been the Cy Young Award Winner.

    That's Why.

  8. #22
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    Re: Why are we [the fans] so desperate to make a trade?

    We lost many games during the season and didn't win in the post season because we didn't hit in critical situations, or at all. IMO, we need to acquire 2 hitters and
    bench help. We were so close last year, this is why we are clamoring for a trade or
    free agents.

  9. #23
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    Re: Why are we [the fans] so desperate to make a trade?

    Quote Originally Posted by 40YrRedsFan View Post
    We lost many games during the season and didn't win in the post season because we didn't hit in critical situations, or at all. IMO, we need to acquire 2 hitters and
    bench help. We were so close last year, this is why we are clamoring for a trade or
    free agents.
    Amen, brother.

    Justin Upton LF
    Jacoby Ellsbury CF
    Jack Hannahan Left Handed Bench Hitter

  10. #24
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    Re: Why are we [the fans] so desperate to make a trade?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hondo View Post
    Amen, brother.

    Justin Upton LF
    Jacoby Ellsbury CF
    Jack Hannahan Left Handed Bench Hitter
    Be prepared for no depth and no decent prospects for 4/5+ years if those deals occur.

  11. #25
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    Re: Why are we [the fans] so desperate to make a trade?

    Quote Originally Posted by 40YrRedsFan View Post
    We lost many games during the season and didn't win in the post season because we didn't hit in critical situations, or at all. IMO, we need to acquire 2 hitters and
    bench help. We were so close last year, this is why we are clamoring for a trade or
    free agents.
    We won 97 games...son, teams don't go 162-0. Teams are bound to have off days, and streaky weaks, and what not. The point is that won nearly 100 games.

    The post season was awful luck, and full of bad decisions by dusty and company. Coming home 2-0, with 3 left to play in your home ballpark? Losing our ace Cueto. Having Votto still injured and playing like a singles hitter. Brandon Phillips getting thrown out early in the inning in game 3, which would have resulted in a extra run, and would have resulted in no extra's and no loss. Having that rolen error occur during game 3 extras. Throwing out the poor performing Mike Leake in a critical game 4. Allowing Latos to lose his cool in game 5, and have him being kept out there until he gave up a crippling grand slam to buster posey.

    The reds had plenty of opportunities to win the series. They blew it. It wasn't just because of an incompetent offence. Heck, they scored what 9-10 runs in San Francisco in Game 2, the most pitcher friendly park in all of MLB>?

    It's the approach of the reds hitters that is so screwed up in my opinion. They see the close fences of GABP and just swing for the fences every single time since it's quite easy to get a cheapo at GABP. In san francisco they knew they were facing ace pitchers and runs would not be easy to come by, so they played small ball, they aimed for the gaps, they aimed where the defense wasn't. That philosophy was turned 180 degrees at GABP.

    We need a better hitting coach, a hitting coach that can teach every roster position player to treat GABP with patience and dillidgance. To teach them, that just because the fences are closer than most parks, DOESN'T MEAN YOU HAVE TO SWING FOR THEM.

    Plus get a few bench pieces I agree.

  12. #26
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    Re: Why are we [the fans] so desperate to make a trade?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedTruck View Post
    We won 97 games...son, teams don't go 162-0. Teams are bound to have off days, and streaky weaks, and what not. The point is that won nearly 100 games.

    The post season was awful luck, and full of bad decisions by dusty and company. Coming home 2-0, with 3 left to play in your home ballpark? Losing our ace Cueto. Having Votto still injured and playing like a singles hitter. Brandon Phillips getting thrown out early in the inning in game 3, which would have resulted in a extra run, and would have resulted in no extra's and no loss. Having that rolen error occur during game 3 extras. Throwing out the poor performing Mike Leake in a critical game 4. Allowing Latos to lose his cool in game 5, and have him being kept out there until he gave up a crippling grand slam to buster posey.
    These 2 explanations are big pet peeves of mine. Just like the argument that Dusty Baker could do no wrong because they won 97 games. They got to the playoffs and lost to a team that won 94 games. It goes deeper than the wins. This team was flawed.

    As far as the postseason goes, sure Votto wasn't right and Cueto got hurt. Look at the team who beat us. They lost their best hitter to a steroid suspension and had to move their ace to the bullpen because of ineffectiveness. But they had other guys step up and they won the World Series. The Reds were unable to do that.

    You mention the 10 runs in SF. Hasn't that been an ongoing problem with this Reds team? 1 run, 1 run, 10 runs, 2 runs, 2 runs, 8 runs. Then you look at the stats and say "the offense is fine, they average 4 runs a game" but they go 2-4 in those games.

    I'm not trying to come down on you, I'm just trying to give you an idea of where folks are coming from when they feel this team must get better to get to the next level beyond regular season wins and get those playoff wins.

    Isn't it great though that we have gotten to a point where the expectations of the Cincinnati Reds is beyond "we may suck now, but wait until the prospects are ready, we are going to be awesome!" or "we made the playoffs!"? It's World Series or bust


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