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Thread: Jacoby Ellsbury?

  1. #91
    Plan to be spontaneous Jefferson24's Avatar
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    Re: Jacoby Ellsbury?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rojo View Post
    Well, I liked it anyhow.

    Thing is, I'm not sure what's fair. How do you solve a problem like Jacoby?
    You don't solve a problem like Ellsbury, kind of like solving the Stubbs strike-out problem.

    I say just walk away from any deal with him. Talent is too hard to come by and you just can't send it packing for an unknown quantity.

    If you trade it needs to be quality for quality or fodder for fodder. You can't take a chance of getting stuck on the wrong end of a quality for fodder trade. At least a team with limited resources and limited payroll can not take that chance.
    We only live in patches. - H. G. Wells

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  3. #92
    Member Superdude's Avatar
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    Re: Jacoby Ellsbury?

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    He was one of the best players in baseball for one season. Before that he was a below average bat and he was back to below average in 2012. Anybody who's trading for Jacoby Ellsbury like he's one of the best players in baseball is a fool. I'm not saying a team couldn't get lucky, but you don't put serious skin in a trade in the hopes you might get lucky.
    Trading for him like he's an MVP isn't my point at all. I'm saying that's a very recent part of his history and trying to enter trade talks without at least acknowledging that is a recipe for Stubbs manning center on opening day.

  4. #93
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Jacoby Ellsbury?

    Quote Originally Posted by Superdude View Post
    Trading for him like he's an MVP isn't my point at all. I'm saying that's a very recent part of his history and trying to enter trade talks without at least acknowledging that is a recipe for Stubbs manning center on opening day.
    The number of CFs who could be had still exceeds the number of teams actually shopping for CFs.

    I can understand the Sox approaching it from the perspective of holding onto Ellsbury unless they're blown away because maybe he'll have a big bounce back, which either helps them contend or drives up his value in the summer window. Yet I see no reason for the Reds to blow the Sox away with an offer.

    Walt has four months to upgrade his CF. There's no reason to panic. And the trading partner Walt is looking for is the one willing to employ a little realpolitik rather than one clinging to its emotional baggage over what a player might have become.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  5. #94
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: Jacoby Ellsbury?

    As far as I'm concerned, Ellsbury's 2011 season should be completely ignored by us if we're considering trading for him.

    2011 he had 32 hr's in 732 pa's.
    Prior to 2011, he had 20 hr's in 1513 mlb pa's.
    Prior to 2011, he had 10 hr's in 1192 minor pa's.
    In 2012 he had 5 hr's in roughly 350 pa's.

    yeah, 2011 was an illusion folks. Outside of 2011 he's never cracked double digits in a season before. Ellsbury's 2011 is more of an aberration than Brady Anderson's ridiculous season was in '96.
    Last edited by _Sir_Charles_; 12-06-2012 at 05:02 PM.
    2014 predictions:
    99-63 WS champs (Cards take 2nd WC, Mil 3rd, Pit 4th, Chi 5th)
    Bruce/Votto neck and neck MVP race (neither takes it)
    Bailey CYA winner
    Hamilton ROY & GG

  6. #95
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Jacoby Ellsbury?

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Walt has four months to upgrade his CF. There's no reason to panic. And the trading partner Walt is looking for is the one willing to employ a little realpolitik rather than one clinging to its emotional baggage over what a player might have become.
    This is a key point.
    Minnesota has been very helpful in taking Philly and Wash off the market, in addition to the FA signings that have shrunk the number of suitors.
    Boston would probably love to trade Ellsbury and just use Victorino in CF (that makes a lot more sense than wasting Victorino in RF).

    The Reds have inhouse options of Stubbs, Heisey, and BHam.. I know last season, CF was the weakest offensive position, but we have to remember that today, LF is the biggest hole. Let's get Ludwick or his replacement in place.
    It would not be a tragedy to stand pat in CF, or at least wait it out until the prices start to fall.

    Ellsbury's lack of power really helps us in a way. He's not an elite player. He'd be a nice addition, but look at what the trade market valued Span at..
    I can't see giving up significantly more.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  7. #96
    Member mdccclxix's Avatar
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    Re: Jacoby Ellsbury?

    Did Minny get more for Revere? Seems like it. Like, way more.

  8. #97
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Jacoby Ellsbury?

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    Minnesota has been very helpful in taking Philly and Wash off the market
    Michael Bourn may sign with an AL Central team just so he can take vengeance on the Twins for taking out what looked to be his two highest bidders.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  9. #98
    Member klw's Avatar
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    Re: Jacoby Ellsbury?

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Michael Bourn may sign with an AL Central team just so he can take vengeance on the Twins for taking out what looked to be his two highest bidders.
    Or maybe Bourn could come to the Reds on a Ryan Madson type one year deal if his market is just shot?

  10. #99
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Jacoby Ellsbury?

    Quote Originally Posted by klw View Post
    Or maybe Bourn could come to the Reds on a Ryan Madson type one year deal if his market is just shot?
    Said the same thing to someone last night.

  11. #100
    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
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    Re: Jacoby Ellsbury?

    Quote Originally Posted by LoganBuck View Post
    Per wlw news Buster Olney reporting this is real, but Boston wants Bailey or Latos.

    No


    No way
    "Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."

  12. #101
    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
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    Re: Jacoby Ellsbury?

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    LH hitters feast on Fenway: David Ortiz, Mike Greenwell, Trot Nixon, Johnny Damon, Scott Cooper (Fenway made his entire career), Fred Lynn, Otis Nixon (switch-hitter, but his numbers as LH hitter during his season in Boston were far better), Troy O'Leary, Billy Goodman, Johnny Pesky, Doc Cramer. There's a century's worth of LH bats - slap hitters, power hitters and everything in between - who have enjoyed the BA benefits of Fenway Park. It's a great hitters park for everyone - no foul territory, big RF, deep to dead center, and you can bang hits off the wall no matter which side you hit from.
    Even arguably the greatest hitter who ever lived, as well as his successor in left field, both posted significantly better numbers at Fenway than they did on the road. If Teddy Ballgame and Yaz were unable to hit as well away from Fenway Park as they did at home, then, yes, Fenway favors lefties.
    "Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."

  13. #102
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    Re: Jacoby Ellsbury?

    Bourn's left. Hamilton can play CF as well. That's the top of the market.

    I'd put Ellsbury and Fowler in second echelon. Granderson probably belongs there for one more year.

    That third level contains Coco Crisp. Nyjer Morgan's there, IMO. David DeJesus and Juan Pierre could also end up in this strata, as could Gerardo Parra. Peter Bourjos may be available as well.

    The last level includes guys like Rajai Davis or reclamation projects such as Grady Sizemore.

    The Rangers (who also might prefer to simply use Leonys Martin), Reds, and Brewers are the only teams left looking, are they not?

    So, Redszone, who have I left out?
    "You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
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  14. #103
    Member blumj's Avatar
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    Re: Jacoby Ellsbury?

    Well, the Indians made an offer to Victorino, and the Yankees probably could use another OF, if not necessarily a CF, whether they trade Granderson or not, either a 1 year deal or an inexpensive player.
    "Reality tells us there are no guarantees. Except that some day Jon Lester will be on that list of 100-game winners." - Peter Gammons

  15. #104
    "A Rose by Any Other. . " RedRoser's Avatar
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    Re: Jacoby Ellsbury?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsBaron View Post


    No way
    Send Arroyo back to them!

  16. #105
    Member klw's Avatar
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    Re: Jacoby Ellsbury?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Bourn's left. Hamilton can play CF as well. That's the top of the market.

    I'd put Ellsbury and Fowler in second echelon. Granderson probably belongs there for one more year.

    That third level contains Coco Crisp. Nyjer Morgan's there, IMO. David DeJesus and Juan Pierre could also end up in this strata, as could Gerardo Parra. Peter Bourjos may be available as well.

    The last level includes guys like Rajai Davis or reclamation projects such as Grady Sizemore.

    The Rangers (who also might prefer to simply use Leonys Martin), Reds, and Brewers are the only teams left looking, are they not?

    So, Redszone, who have I left out?
    Are the Braves still looking for CF or are they going with Upton in CF?


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