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Thread: Reds acquire Shin-Soo Choo and Jason Donald for Drew Stubbs and Didi Gregorious

  1. #946
    2013 W.S. Champions Nathan's Avatar
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    Re: Reds acquire Shin-Soo Choo and Jason Donald for Drew Stubbs and Didi Gregorious

    Here's my two cents. Yes, Gregorious has the potential to be a better player than Cozart. Indians and Diamondbacks probably knew this. Everyone involved preferred Didi over Zach. The Reds weren't going to let one player stop them from getting the guy they want, especially with the position already covered. So, realistically, could've they traded the guy they really wanted to keep to get the guy they wanted worse?
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  3. #947
    One and a half men Patrick Bateman's Avatar
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    Re: Reds acquire Shin-Soo Choo and Jason Donald for Drew Stubbs and Didi Gregorious

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post

    Within two seasons, Gregorius is going to be better than Cozart is.
    You really need to stop saying stuff like this.

    Did might be better than Cozart. To this point Cozart is an average regular. Did has done nothing to suggest that he is a complete lock to even OPS .700 in the majors. If he fails to improve his hitting, he'll be little more than Janish. There isnt THAT much projectability with Didi that makes it a sure thing.

    At some point you can't keep assuming that a prospect is guaranteed to make that next step in development. If it were true, every top 100 guy would be a locked in above average major leaguer which simply is not the case.

    There are currently about 15 people in the world that can do what Cozart does. That's not something completely worth dismissing. I understand his flaws, and I understand the Reds dont have much SS depth, but how many teams have two SS in their system currently able to play a starting role competently? There's a reason that Didi was so coveted. The Reds need another SS as much as most other teams (ie. if any team's starting SS goes down they probably dont have a great alternative ready).

  4. #948
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    Re: Reds acquire Shin-Soo Choo and Jason Donald for Drew Stubbs and Didi Gregorious

    Quote Originally Posted by Nathan View Post
    Here's my two cents. Yes, Gregorious has the potential to be a better player than Cozart. Indians and Diamondbacks probably knew this. Everyone involved preferred Didi over Zach. The Reds weren't going to let one player stop them from getting the guy they want, especially with the position already covered. So, realistically, could've they traded the guy they really wanted to keep to get the guy they wanted worse?
    Yep, it really doesn't matter who is or will be better between Didi and Zach. This trade only gets made because the D-Backs had a massive man crush on Didi and were willing to overpay to get him. They weren't going to give up Bauer for Zach, which means the Tribe wasn't going to trade Choo for Zach.
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  5. #949
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Reds acquire Shin-Soo Choo and Jason Donald for Drew Stubbs and Didi Gregorious

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post
    You really need to stop saying stuff like this.
    I guess we should just shut down Redszone, and the internet while we are at it. What is this, Russia, circa 1960?

  6. #950
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    Re: Reds acquire Shin-Soo Choo and Jason Donald for Drew Stubbs and Didi Gregorious

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I guess we should just shut down Redszone, and the internet while we are at it. What is this, Russia, circa 1960?
    It's called RedsZone for a reason.

  7. #951
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Reds acquire Shin-Soo Choo and Jason Donald for Drew Stubbs and Didi Gregorious

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I think 2012 was about his norm. Scouts have long questioned whether he was anything more than a .240 hitter at the MLB level. He has, outside of one season, always been an aggressive swinger/low walk type of guy.

    As for the peak defensive thing, it was from a subscriber article on Bill James online, but was referenced by Rob Neyer here.
    As with most attempts to analyze defense, it is still quite the wax nose scientifically speaking. I wouldn't consider it fair by anyone in a discussion to speak with absolute authority about this theory. Also, it begs the question on "defensive value." The argument seems to be "defensive skills" more than "defensive value," which would be a category error. Of course, all I can read is a Rob Neyer blurb, so whether this research is confusing categories isn't fair for me to say, just raising the question.
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  8. #952
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Reds acquire Shin-Soo Choo and Jason Donald for Drew Stubbs and Didi Gregorious

    Quote Originally Posted by RANDY IN INDY View Post
    Will be truly interesting to look back at this in two years to see who is the better player.
    Wait, I thought that wasn't allowed on RZ? Holding people accountable for their opinions is forbidden and makes you a meany.
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  9. #953
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: Reds acquire Shin-Soo Choo and Jason Donald for Drew Stubbs and Didi Gregorious

    Ok here's a question. Who would have still made the trade if it were Cozart instead of Didi?

    Obviously we would then need someone else to play SS for us this year...

  10. #954
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    Re: Reds acquire Shin-Soo Choo and Jason Donald for Drew Stubbs and Didi Gregorious

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    Ok here's a question. Who would have still made the trade if it were Cozart instead of Didi?

    Obviously we would then need someone else to play SS for us this year...
    The funny part of that is that we would have traded Stubbs because of the bat being too weak to gain from his defense and kept a guy with the same issue.
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  11. #955
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    Re: Reds acquire Shin-Soo Choo and Jason Donald for Drew Stubbs and Didi Gregorious

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I guess we should just shut down Redszone, and the internet while we are at it. What is this, Russia, circa 1960?
    I think the point is that dogmatism on ballplayers makes folks look foolish later, then they get offended because their foolishness is linked. Exhibit One--Zach Stewart's Cy Young Award is still a running joke on here.
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  12. #956
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    Re: Reds acquire Shin-Soo Choo and Jason Donald for Drew Stubbs and Didi Gregorious

    Quote Originally Posted by Nathan View Post
    Everyone involved preferred Didi over Zach.
    We don't know this.

  13. #957
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    Re: Reds acquire Shin-Soo Choo and Jason Donald for Drew Stubbs and Didi Gregorious

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    I think the point is that dogmatism on ballplayers makes folks look foolish later, then they get offended because their foolishness is linked. Exhibit One--Zach Stewart's Cy Young Award is still a running joke on here.
    Checking...

    Yup, still funny.

    (So that the newer members can play along at home: http://www.redszone.com/forums/showp...&postcount=213)
    Last edited by Caveat Emperor; 12-14-2012 at 08:33 AM.
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  14. #958
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    Re: Reds acquire Shin-Soo Choo and Jason Donald for Drew Stubbs and Didi Gregorious

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    I think the point is that dogmatism on ballplayers makes folks look foolish later, then they get offended because their foolishness is linked. Exhibit One--Zach Stewart's Cy Young Award is still a running joke on here.
    Stewart is the Cy Young of being of traded....and will soon rival Bruce Chen as the Bobo Newsom of the 2010's.

  15. #959
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    Re: Reds acquire Shin-Soo Choo and Jason Donald for Drew Stubbs and Didi Gregorious

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    It's about 59,000 posts short - http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26042

    Krono alone had more posts in that thread than there are in this thread.
    Wow, RedsZone invented Twitter before Twitter did.
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  16. #960
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Reds acquire Shin-Soo Choo and Jason Donald for Drew Stubbs and Didi Gregorious

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    Ok here's a question. Who would have still made the trade if it were Cozart instead of Didi?

    Obviously we would then need someone else to play SS for us this year...
    I probably wouldn't make the trade if they demanded Cozart.
    If that was the trade, now we are playing a corner OF in CF AND we have a massive hole at SS. Two relatively young starting players for one year of Choo is too much (even if one is Stubbs) . I'd rather get De Arza from the White Sox or something like that.

    Cozart >>> Didi next year. Maybe Didi eventually passes Cozart, but I'm mainly worried about 2013 now.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

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