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Thread: Reds acquire Shin-Soo Choo and Jason Donald for Drew Stubbs and Didi Gregorious

  1. #706
    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: Shin-soo Choo?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    Jocketty-ing for position in his negotiations with Boras next offseason?
    Not that you would necessarily disagree, but I think Walt's being frank, making it very clear that we're perfectly fine with Choo just being here one year. It's a can't lose proposition. If Choo performs as we anticipate he will, it gives us a clear lead off hitter even with the expected defensive drop off. And he will be a clear candidate to be tendered a qualifying offer. This year's number was $13.3M, so I wouldn't be surprised if it's $15M next year. If he accepts, we have him another year at an amount we'll have to work to shoehorn in to our budget (but one that I think is doable) and if he declines (every player offered this year, I think, declined), we get the draft picks.

    And it does put Choo and Boras on notice that we don't need to keep him.
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  3. #707
    Mailing it in Cyclone792's Avatar
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    Re: Reds acquire Shin-Soo Choo and Jason Donald for Drew Stubbs and Didi Gregorious

    Just going on record to say that I'm loving the Choo deal. I think Didi will be a fine player, but the Reds need top of the lineup OBP and they need it now. Choo provides that.

    The real key to a deal like this, though, is player development. The Reds have turned their world around the last five plus years in drafting and developing talent - it's a resource that keeps on giving. When you have the player development success that the Reds have had, you're able to dangle quality depth out to other clubs and use it to grab a guy like Choo that can help win now.

    Keep drafting well, keep developing guys, and keep on winning ballgames.
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  4. #708
    Charlie Brown All-Star IslandRed's Avatar
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    Re: Reds acquire Shin-Soo Choo and Jason Donald for Drew Stubbs and Didi Gregorious

    Quote Originally Posted by mdccclxix View Post
    The Towers obsession for Didi just tells you how the other team needs to like and want what you have. Not sure Cingrani was a match for Cleveland, ya know? It's not about rankings.
    Excellent point. A lot of people both in and out of baseball spend a lot of time ranking and evaluating players and prospects, but in the end, a guy's trade value is what one of the other 29 GMs will give for him. Nothing more, nothing less.
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  5. #709
    Mon chou Choo vaticanplum's Avatar
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    Re: Reds acquire Shin-Soo Choo and Jason Donald for Drew Stubbs and Didi Gregorious

    I don't want Walt Jocketty ever to leave. If he dies the Reds need to figure out some high-level Weekend at Bernie's stuff.
    There is no such thing as a pitching prospect.

  6. #710
    Future Fame of Holler WildcatFan's Avatar
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    Re: Reds acquire Shin-Soo Choo and Jason Donald for Drew Stubbs and Didi Gregorious

    Quote Originally Posted by vaticanplum View Post
    I don't want Walt Jocketty ever to leave. If he dies the Reds need to figure out some high-level Weekend at Bernie's stuff.
    So, so terrible.

    Laughed so, so hard.
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  7. #711
    Member PickOff's Avatar
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    Re: Reds acquire Shin-Soo Choo and Jason Donald for Drew Stubbs and Didi Gregorious

    With this transaction, Walt has managed to Dustyproof the lineup. The only hiccup could be if Rolen returns and Dusty does not make Frazier the starter.

    With Choo at leadoff, Votto 3rd, Ludwick 4th, Bruce 5th - Dusty will almost certainly bat Phillips second due to his speed. Frazier's power therefore fits at 6th, with Cozart/Han-Mes bringing up the rear.

    Dusty will have his fun when Heisey gives Choo a rest. I love this lineup and look forward to not seeing so many Dusty lineup discussions.
    Thank goodness for baseball.

  8. #712
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    Re: Reds acquire Shin-Soo Choo and Jason Donald for Drew Stubbs and Didi Gregorious

    My two cents:

    Like the trade, but I do have concerns. I hate giving up Gregorious, but understand it. I think he's going to be a very good major league shortstop for a lot of years and those guys are tremendously valuable. Trading one for a one-year rental (if that's what this ends up being) is risky. I'm not nearly as high on Cozart as most here.

    I'm not wild about compromising defense up the middle, but I also trust Jocketty enough to believe he wouldn't try it if he and his scouts did not feel Choo could handle the position. So, I'm giving the Reds and Choo the benefit of the doubt.

    Having said that, it's safe to say the Reds have downgraded defensively at two positions -- center and third. The offense will have to make up for those extra runs allowed.

    Having said all that, I'm excited for what it will mean in 2013. Choo is exactly what this team needed at the top of the order.

  9. #713
    Member mdccclxix's Avatar
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    Re: Reds acquire Shin-Soo Choo and Jason Donald for Drew Stubbs and Didi Gregorious

    Quote Originally Posted by osuceltic View Post
    My two cents:

    Like the trade, but I do have concerns. I hate giving up Gregorious, but understand it. I think he's going to be a very good major league shortstop for a lot of years and those guys are tremendously valuable. Trading one for a one-year rental (if that's what this ends up being) is risky. I'm not nearly as high on Cozart as most here.

    I'm not wild about compromising defense up the middle, but I also trust Jocketty enough to believe he wouldn't try it if he and his scouts did not feel Choo could handle the position. So, I'm giving the Reds and Choo the benefit of the doubt.

    Having said that, it's safe to say the Reds have downgraded defensively at two positions -- center and third. The offense will have to make up for those extra runs allowed.

    Having said all that, I'm excited for what it will mean in 2013. Choo is exactly what this team needed at the top of the order.
    I was thinking of a-typical CF's and a decent body type comp for Choo would be Jon Jay or maybe even Laynce Nix. Not every CF is a lanky speedster or a little guy. Add in some Heisey relief and it will be okay. Not great, possibly barely good, but okay.

    3b seems pretty natural for Frazier, I like him there more than LF. A full season will certainly show his true skill. I think he is a bit underestimated athletically, after all he was a SS.

    Add in a possible surge from Mesoraco offensively, too.

  10. #714
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    Re: Reds acquire Shin-Soo Choo and Jason Donald for Drew Stubbs and Didi Gregorious

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    So who's our SS when Cozart's out?
    Donald and/or Burris can handle the position on a short-term basis. My guess is Walt will sign a will sign a veteran SS to stash at AAA in case they need someone to cover the position for an extended period.

  11. #715
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Reds acquire Shin-Soo Choo and Jason Donald for Drew Stubbs and Didi Gregorious

    Can Choo be the rough defensive equivalent of John Jay in CF? Jay hardly sets the world on fire out there, but he's effective. If Choo can do that combined with his typical offense, his impact will be moderately huge.
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  12. #716
    Puffy 3:16 Puffy's Avatar
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    Re: Reds acquire Shin-Soo Choo and Jason Donald for Drew Stubbs and Didi Gregorious

    Think about this - - the Reds were last in National League last year in OBP from leadoff position (.254). If Choo just does what he normally does, OBP of about .375, the Reds will be either first or second in leadoff position OBP.
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  13. #717
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    Re: Reds acquire Shin-Soo Choo and Jason Donald for Drew Stubbs and Didi Gregorious

    Quote Originally Posted by Puffy View Post
    Think about this - - the Reds were last in National League last year in OBP from leadoff position (.254). If Choo just does what he normally does, OBP of about .375, the Reds will be either first or second in leadoff position OBP.
    I love it.

    Then you have late innings scenarios where perhaps the other team will burn their LHRP in the 7th or 8th just to get around Choo. All that strategy aside, you still have some good momentum from Choo and BP's xbh's, as well as Choo's walk rate and Phillips' bat control. Lot's of energy up there leading up to Votto in all kinds of situations. Hopefully, Ludwick truly can clean up what's there for him. I'm not sure how much he makes LHP pay for facing Votto. Really, this is mostly about Votto getting to 110 rbi's.

    edit: check that: Luddy slashed .263 /.360/.576/.937 vs LHP in 2012
    Last edited by mdccclxix; 12-12-2012 at 10:53 AM.

  14. #718
    Member mdccclxix's Avatar
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    Re: Reds acquire Shin-Soo Choo and Jason Donald for Drew Stubbs and Didi Gregorious

    Votto's splits vs RHP last year:

    .359/.500/.609/1.109


  15. #719
    My clutch is broken RichRed's Avatar
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    Re: Reds acquire Shin-Soo Choo and Jason Donald for Drew Stubbs and Didi Gregorious



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  16. #720
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    Re: Reds acquire Shin-Soo Choo and Jason Donald for Drew Stubbs and Didi Gregorious

    Hopefully a lot more 2-0 leads in the 1st inning this year.

    Is it in this team's character to play with a lead? 2010 and 2012 being marked by come back wins?


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