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Thread: After the Choo deal

  1. #31
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    Re: After the Choo deal

    With Lotzkar likely heading to the 'pen in Pensacola, I want to keep Cingrani as a starter.

    IMO the bullpen is fine as is:

    CL Broxton
    SU Marshall
    RHP Simon
    RHP Hoover
    RHP LeCure
    RHP Arredondo OR Masset OR a LHP*

    *If they can get a decent LHP in a buy-low situation and let him compete in ST, great. Otherwise I am fine with Arredondo or Masset and Marshall being the only lefty in the pen to start the year. Likely this spot ends up getting filled by Leake or Cingrani (just for this year - still want him as a longterm starter, kind of like the David Price approach) before the year is out.
    Last edited by Benihana; 12-12-2012 at 11:58 AM.
    Go BLUE!!!

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  3. #32
    Lover of Trivialities Doc. Scott's Avatar
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    Re: After the Choo deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Blitz Dorsey View Post
    Stephenson struggled at low-A Dayton last year in his brief stint there. He'll probably start the year out at Dayton and I expect a call-up to Bakersfield before long. But Triple-A by the end of the year? No way. I hope you're right, but I don't see it.
    I wouldn't be surprised if Stephenson is held in Dayton for some extra time and then skipped straight to Pensacola.

  4. #33
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    Re: After the Choo deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve4192 View Post
    I could see them bringing Rolen back and moving Frazier back to his 'four corners' bench role. There will still be plenty of at bats available for him backing up 1B/3B/LF/RF. Rolen is only good for about 100 games a year, and Ludwick will probably miss 30-40 games as well. That's nearly a hundred starts for Todd just between those two positions. If Bruce or Votto get dinged up, that's even more playing time for him.
    Dusty said at RedsFest that Frazier is his starting 3B. He said that he has earned it. Both he and Walt have spoken to Rolen and he is almost certainly going to retire. They didn't come right out and say for sure that he would but they left no doubt. There was no doubt at all who they consider the 3B in 2013.
    Tim McCarver: Baseball Quotes
    I remember one time going out to the mound to talk with Bob Gibson. He told me to get back behind the batter, that the only thing I knew about pitching was that it was hard to hit.

  5. #34
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: After the Choo deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    I don't agree on this one, Charles. Walt is going for it. Arredondo can be effective against lefties, but he was ineffective against EVERYBODY second half last year.

    There will be a second lefty in the bullpen IMO. And FWIW I would make it a good one.

    Keep in mind that Chappy is out of the pen, a huge loss for the pen. The Reds will have to counteract that with depth. They need good relievers, one after the other.

    Just a guess, but I'd think the Reds will try and move Ondrusek and possibly Arredondo and replace them with a lefty. Hoover will play a big role this year, hope he comes through, he'll likely join the late innings crew with Brox and Marshall.

    As for Masset, I think he'll begin at AAA after missing a season and then the Reds will see what he has.
    I'd have no problem dealing Logan & Jose for a better reliever. None at all. But I'd be surprised if it happened is all. I think the roster is set for 2013 right now. I think Hannahan was the final piece of the puzzle for Walt.

    And Nick, I think he'll be ready come spring training. Besides, does he even have any options left?
    2014 predictions:
    99-63 WS champs (Cards take 2nd WC, Mil 3rd, Pit 4th, Chi 5th)
    Bruce/Votto neck and neck MVP race (neither takes it)
    Bailey CYA winner
    Hamilton ROY & GG

  6. #35
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    Re: After the Choo deal

    I would not be shocked at all if Walt goes out and gets a flycatcher. Somebody like Cory Patterson getting an invite to spring training.

    The reds have 5 guys (Ludwick, Bruce, Choo, Paul and Heisey) who nominally can cover center, but none of them are really centerfielders. This arrangement can fly here at GAB or at Wrigley, but when they go at west to Petco/Dodger Stadium/Coors? They'll need somebody who can really cover the ground out there.

    I'm not talking about somebody that they'll spend any resources on whatsoever. Jeremy Hermida was "free." I'll be shocked if they don't do something like that. Stash the "lucky" guy in AAA and then bring him up when they go west.
    "Even a bad day at the ballpark beats the snot out of most other good days. I'll take my scorecard and pencil and beer and hot dog and rage at the dips and cheer at the highs, but I'm not ever going to stop loving this game and this team and nobody will ever take that away from me." Roy Tucker October 2010

  7. #36
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    Re: After the Choo deal

    Quote Originally Posted by dfs View Post
    I would not be shocked at all if Walt goes out and gets a flycatcher. Somebody like Cory Patterson getting an invite to spring training.

    The reds have 5 guys (Ludwick, Bruce, Choo, Paul and Heisey) who nominally can cover center, but none of them are really centerfielders. This arrangement can fly here at GAB or at Wrigley, but when they go at west to Petco/Dodger Stadium/Coors? They'll need somebody who can really cover the ground out there.

    I'm not talking about somebody that they'll spend any resources on whatsoever. Jeremy Hermida was "free." I'll be shocked if they don't do something like that. Stash the "lucky" guy in AAA and then bring him up when they go west.
    The one problem with stashing the guy at AAA is that Louisville already has two CF that are prospects: Billy Hamilton and Ryan LaMarre. How would said player get any games at CF?
    Go BLUE!!!

  8. #37
    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: After the Choo deal

    I wouldn't be counting on anything from Masset. If we do get anything, it's just a nice bonus.
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

  9. #38
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    Re: After the Choo deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    With Lotzkar likely heading to the 'pen in Pensacola, I want to keep Cingrani as a starter.

    IMO the bullpen is fine as is:

    CL Broxton
    SU Marshall
    RHP Simon
    RHP Hoover
    RHP LeCure
    RHP Arredondo OR Masset OR a LHP*

    *If they can get a decent LHP in a buy-low situation and let him compete in ST, great. Otherwise I am fine with Arredondo or Masset and Marshall being the only lefty in the pen to start the year. Likely this spot ends up getting filled by Leake or Cingrani (just for this year - still want him as a longterm starter, kind of like the David Price approach) before the year is out.
    I guess I'm not that overly concerned with the Reds' financial statement. Whether they buy low, high or medium doesn't concern me very much in terms of dollars.

    I'm not sure if you forgot someone, but the pen as you list needs bolstering. Little depth. Hoover is unproven. Masset injured. Arredondo struggled. Simon is a decent long man not for the late innings. Ondrusek didn't even make your post. Cingrani should be at AAA starting.

    The pen needs another good reliever. A lefty would give them Broxton, Marshall, Hoover (hopefully ready) and another guy for the later innings.

    Lecure is then free for the middle.

    Arredondo could have been that additional guy, but right now I don't have confidence he can do it. He fell apart last season.

    Not many pens could withstand the loss of Chapman and the Reds need to bolster theirs, if possible. It's a long season, you need a lot of good relievers.

  10. #39
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    Re: After the Choo deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    I guess I'm not that overly concerned with the Reds' financial statement. Whether they buy low, high or medium doesn't concern me very much in terms of dollars.

    I'm not sure if you forgot someone, but the pen as you list needs bolstering. Little depth. Hoover is unproven. Masset injured. Arredondo struggled. Simon is a decent long man not for the late innings. Ondrusek didn't even make your post. Cingrani should be at AAA starting.

    The pen needs another good reliever. A lefty would give them Broxton, Marshall, Hoover (hopefully ready) and another guy for the later innings.

    Lecure is then free for the middle.

    Arredondo could have been that additional guy, but right now I don't have confidence he can do it. He fell apart last season.

    Not many pens could withstand the loss of Chapman and the Reds need to bolster theirs, if possible. It's a long season, you need a lot of good relievers.
    Agree and Jocketty's good at acquiring them. I suspect we'll see another name not yet in the org. A late pickup on the order of last year's Simon deal wouldn't surprise me at all.

  11. #40
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    Re: After the Choo deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    I guess I'm not that overly concerned with the Reds' financial statement. Whether they buy low, high or medium doesn't concern me very much.

    I'm not sure if you forgot someone, but the pen as you list needs bolstering. Little depth. Hoover is unproven. Masset injured. Arredondo struggled. Simon is a decent long man not for the late innings. Ondrusek didn't even make your post. Cingrani should be at AAA starting.

    The pen needs another good reliever. A lefty would give them Broxton, Marshall, Hoover (hopefully ready) and another guy for the later innings.

    Lecure is then free for the middle.

    Arredondo could have been that additional guy, but right now I don't have confidence he can do it. He fell apart last season.

    Not many pens could withstand the loss of Chapman and the Reds need to bolster theirs, if possible.
    What would Redszone be if Kc wasn't trying to improve the bullpen? It's like me trying to trade for Justin Upton.

    I don't think this pen needs improving. Masset and Arredondo both have their question marks, but that's why I'm comfortable allocating one spot to Masset OR Arredondo OR a new LHP. Everyone else is relatively proven. Hoover looked great last year in 24 appearances - that's enough for me for the least proven guy in the pen. Everyone else has proven over multiple seasons they can shoulder the load they are being asked to.

    Reds had one of the best pens in the league last year, and while Chapman has been taken away, Broxton and Hoover have been added for full seasons (as opposed to half) and everyone else has another year of seasoning.

    For depth they can turn to guys they know can get major league hitters out, guys like Logan Ondrusek and possibly Leake or Cingrani, who may be continuing to hone their craft in AAA.

    So what's the problem?

    If they bring in anyone else, it should be a LOOGY to replace Masset/Arredondo. Other than that, this unit is more than fine as far as I'm concerned.
    Go BLUE!!!

  12. #41
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    Re: After the Choo deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    What would Redszone be if Kc wasn't trying to improve the bullpen? It's like me trying to trade for Justin Upton.

    I don't think this pen needs improving. Masset and Arredondo both have their question marks, but that's why I'm comfortable allocating one spot to Masset OR Arredondo OR a new LHP. Everyone else is relatively proven. Hoover looked great last year in 24 appearances - that's enough for me for the least proven guy in the pen. Everyone else has proven over multiple seasons they can shoulder the load they are being asked to.

    Reds had one of the best pens in the league last year, and while Chapman has been taken away, Broxton and Hoover have been added for full seasons (as opposed to half) and everyone else has another year of seasoning.

    For depth they can turn to guys they know can get major league hitters out, guys like Logan Ondrusek and possibly Leake or Cingrani, who may be continuing to hone their craft in AAA.

    So what's the problem?

    If they bring in anyone else, it should be a LOOGY to replace Masset/Arredondo. Other than that, this unit is more than fine as far as I'm concerned.
    I thought last year's pen was a bit overrated. Oh, it was good. But Chapman's numbers were so outstanding that he made the pen appear better than it was, at least statistically.

    The way I see the bullpen is five guys who are good or expected to be. Hoover, Lecure, Marshall, Brox, and Simon for longer stints.

    I wouldn't fill the remaining two spots with maybes. I'd like one more very good reliever.

  13. #42
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: After the Choo deal

    Sure would be nice to have Jeremy Horst, huh?
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  14. #43
    Brett William Moore Will M's Avatar
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    Re: After the Choo deal

    I agree with folks who would like another late inning reliever.

    I am not sure Paul is the best 5th OF. Maybe a CF who plays great defense would be useful to plug in late in games where we have the lead.
    .

  15. #44
    nothing more than a fan Always Red's Avatar
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    Re: After the Choo deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Will M View Post

    I am not sure Paul is the best 5th OF. Maybe a CF who plays great defense would be useful to plug in late in games where we have the lead.
    I like this idea a lot.

  16. #45
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    Re: After the Choo deal

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    The one problem with stashing the guy at AAA is that Louisville already has two CF that are prospects: Billy Hamilton and Ryan LaMarre. How would said player get any games at CF?
    d'oh. yeah. you are right. Whoever the designated CF fly catcher is he will have to beat out Paul for a roster slot.
    "Even a bad day at the ballpark beats the snot out of most other good days. I'll take my scorecard and pencil and beer and hot dog and rage at the dips and cheer at the highs, but I'm not ever going to stop loving this game and this team and nobody will ever take that away from me." Roy Tucker October 2010


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