Turn Off Ads?
Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 31 to 44 of 44

Thread: Buster Olney's comments on 1530 ESPN

  1. #31
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    35,575

    Re: Buster Olney's comments on 1530 ESPN

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    How 'bout experience? Who has more experience at 2B? That's gotta be worth something
    Phillips has more experience, but for just about every shortstop ever, the move to second base was one without issue. At both spots you range to the left and to the right. The throw is shorter.

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #32
    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Brownsburg, Indiana
    Posts
    15,268

    Re: Buster Olney's comments on 1530 ESPN

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Phillips has more experience, but for just about every shortstop ever, the move to second base was one without issue. At both spots you range to the left and to the right. The throw is shorter.
    He'd have to show it on the field on a consistent basis for me to make such an extraordinary statement. Tools and potential is one thing. Consistently performing on the field when it counts is a totally different equation. I've seen plenty of "five o'clock" performers over the years.
    Talent is God Given: be humble.
    Fame is man given: be thankful.
    Conceit is self given: be careful.

    John Wooden

  4. #33
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    35,575

    Re: Buster Olney's comments on 1530 ESPN

    Quote Originally Posted by RANDY IN INDY View Post
    He'd have to show it on the field on a consistent basis for me to make such an extraordinary statement. Tools and potential is one thing. Consistently performing on the field when it counts is a totally different equation. I've seen plenty of "five o'clock" performers over the years.
    .965 fielding percentage on minor league fields with minor league first basemen this past season. At shortstop. That isn't a five o'clock performer.

  5. #34
    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Brownsburg, Indiana
    Posts
    15,268

    Re: Buster Olney's comments on 1530 ESPN

    And Brandon Phillips consistently does it at the major league level. Gregorius needs to prove it for a while.
    Talent is God Given: be humble.
    Fame is man given: be thankful.
    Conceit is self given: be careful.

    John Wooden

  6. #35
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Bedford, KY
    Posts
    8,992

    Re: Buster Olney's comments on 1530 ESPN

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    .965 fielding percentage on minor league fields with minor league first basemen this past season. At shortstop. That isn't a five o'clock performer.
    Paul Janish had a lifetime minor league fielding percentage of .971.

    Zack Cozart's fielding percentage (minor league only) is .970.

    IMO, you're overestimating both the impact of Gregorius' defense and his ability. Is he above average? Okay, sure. Is he a game-changer? I don't know anyone-- aside from you, doug (and, of course, the DBack GM)-- who says so.

    Most experts and scouts see his likely major league spot as a poor starter or a decent backup middle infielder. Considering the current Red SS graded out as above average overall his rookie season, I just don't get the hand-wringing over losing the guy.

    Is he a good prospect? Okay, sure. Maybe. He has a couple good things going for him-- youth and defense.

    But he has some massive holes as well. More holes than Cozart, IMO, who only struggles with obp.
    Last edited by Scrap Irony; 12-13-2012 at 05:07 PM.
    "You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
    -- Christy Matthewson
    "Show me a good loser and I'll show you an idiot."
    -- Leo Durocher

  7. #36
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Lebanon
    Posts
    7,067

    Re: Buster Olney's comments on 1530 ESPN

    All I want to know is......is Gregorius a future Cy Young winner?

    Laugh. It's a joke.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  8. #37
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    35,575

    Re: Buster Olney's comments on 1530 ESPN

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    IMO, you're overestimating both the impact of Gregorius' defense and his ability. Is he above average? Okay, sure. Is he a game-changer? I don't know anyone-- aside from you, doug (and, of course, the DBack GM)-- who says so.
    He is a plus defender. I don't recall a scouting report saying otherwise. If you have seen them, please share.

    Most experts and scouts see his likely major league spot as a poor starter or a decent backup middle infielder. Considering the current Red SS graded out as above average overall his rookie season, I just don't get the hand-wringing over losing the guy.
    Plenty of guys, since this trade, have said his upside is a "second division starter". Well, that means somewhere in the 7-12 range of all Major League shortstops. I don't have some grand illusions of Gregorius becoming some superstar. I just believe he can be a .700-.740 OPS hitter with gold-glove caliber defense. In todays game, that is really, really valuable. One of my favorite things to talk to scouts about is their terminology. Often times it isn't based in reality. It is based upon what teams want, not what is actually available. They will tell you that so and so is a #2 or #3 pitcher. But by their definitions, that means that only about 15 teams even have the capability of having a #1, #2 and #3 starter (Re: there are maybe a total of 45 guys in all of baseball who are a #1, #2 and #3 combined), where every other pitcher in baseball has #4 and #5s or worse filling out their rotation. It may be what they believe a pitcher should profile as, but it doesn't jive with the reality that is the current talent distribution. It hasn't for a long time. It is like scouting terms have remained the same for player talent as they used to be when there were 16 teams in the entire league.

    At the end of the day, it isn't handwringing over losing this guy. Just like it wouldn't have been if they had traded Cozart instead. It is that there is literally no one within 4 years behind whoever they kept who can even play a defensive first shortstop. Jason Donald, Emmanual Burris.... those guys aren't shortstops anymore than Chris Valaika was a shortstop.

    Is he a good prospect? Okay, sure. Maybe.
    Well, he is good enough that Baseball America was going to rank him higher than both Nick Travieso and Jesse Winker. While I don't entirely agree with that assessment, JJ Cooper didn't come up with that idea out of thin air. Those two guys are first rounders from last year and Jesse Winker went to the Pioneer League and absolutely raked. Apparently plenty enough people convinced Cooper and Baseball America that Gregorius has more value than that.
    Last edited by dougdirt; 12-13-2012 at 07:26 PM.

  9. #38
    Member Wonderful Monds's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    2,692
    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    All I want to know is......is Gregorius a future Cy Young winner?

    Laugh. It's a joke.
    No. He is future Derek Jeter.
    They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Schuler View Post
    He has also taught me that even when the Reds win it is important to focus on the fact that they could have lost.

  10. #39
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    35,575

    Re: Buster Olney's comments on 1530 ESPN

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds View Post
    No. He is future Derek Jeter.
    That is pretty much unpossible. Jeter never was any good at playing shortstop.

  11. #40
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Bedford, KY
    Posts
    8,992

    Re: Buster Olney's comments on 1530 ESPN

    Second division starter means the second half of the league-- 16-30. From Wiki:

    First division is a term that has had various meanings, at various times, in the sport of baseball, but originally referred to the rankings within a league. Teams which ranked in the top 50% of a league were said to have finished in the "first division", while the rest were said to be in the "second division".
    In other words, many think he's a below average starter-- at his ceiling.
    "You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
    -- Christy Matthewson
    "Show me a good loser and I'll show you an idiot."
    -- Leo Durocher

  12. #41
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    35,575

    Re: Buster Olney's comments on 1530 ESPN

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Second division starter means the second half of the league-- 16-30. From Wiki:



    In other words, many think he's a below average starter-- at his ceiling.
    I am not going to argue with you (or wikipedia) about this. Scout talk generally isn't based in the reality of talent distribution.

    I don't know how many scouts you have talked to, but I doubt it is anywhere near "most". Some out there do think he is a future utility player. Some also think he is the guy I suggest he could become. Just like some used to say Johnny Cueto was a reliever, while others said he was a #2 starter. There is an incredible amount of variance on just about every prospect. I feel just fine thinking that Gregorius has the potential to be a .740 OPS bat in the Majors. You (and others) can disagree with that. I am done talking about it.
    Last edited by dougdirt; 12-13-2012 at 08:25 PM.

  13. #42
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Bedford, KY
    Posts
    8,992

    Re: Buster Olney's comments on 1530 ESPN

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I am not going to argue with you (or wikipedia) about this. Scout talk generally isn't based in the reality of talent distribution.
    Wow.

    This now reminds me a bit of the Billy Hamilton isn't really an athlete thread.

    Sigh.
    "You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
    -- Christy Matthewson
    "Show me a good loser and I'll show you an idiot."
    -- Leo Durocher

  14. #43
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    35,575

    Re: Buster Olney's comments on 1530 ESPN

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Wow.

    This now reminds me a bit of the Billy Hamilton isn't really an athlete thread.

    Sigh.
    Which you still don't seem to grasp. I never said he wasn't an athlete. in fact, on multiple occasions I have said he is the best athlete we have in the Reds system. What I said, is that he isn't what I would consider a "super athlete" because he lacks any kind of physical strength. Josh Hamilton. Mike Trout. Ken Griffey Jr. Guys like that are super athletes to me. Guys who can hit the ball a mile. Run past you. Run over you. Throw it by you. Those guys are super athletes. Billy Hamilton isn't in that group. Billy Hamilton is a fine athlete. He just isn't in that class.

  15. #44
    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Cincinnati, OH
    Posts
    11,449

    Re: Buster Olney's comments on 1530 ESPN



Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25