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Thread: Bruce or Choo in CF?

  1. #16
    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
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    Re: Bruce or Choo in CF?

    The pitchers are going to miss Drew Stubbs defense in CF.
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  3. #17
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: Bruce or Choo in CF?

    Quote Originally Posted by SunDeck View Post
    Unless Choo can stand on the warning track in right field and throw a one hop seed to third base, I say leave Bruce where he is.
    That's the thing. He can. Someone earlier posted that they're both virtually the same defensively. I agree with that.
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  4. #18
    Mon chou Choo vaticanplum's Avatar
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    Re: Bruce or Choo in CF?

    I've always been higher on Bruce in CF than most. Just love his arm, i guess.

    So I'll go with Bruce, but I also think that if this is the case, they need to *start* spring training with the mindset that he is going to be there or there's going to be a 100% pure tryout (rather than Choo being the default with Bruce only stepping in if he fails). He's going to need that time to readjust in that mindset.

    Additionally, while I know the stats, I haven't seen enough of Choo in the outfield to have a strong opinion about it.
    There is no such thing as a pitching prospect.

  5. #19
    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
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    Re: Bruce or Choo in CF?

    When in doubt, go with the younger guy -- Bruce.
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  6. #20
    First Time Caller SunDeck's Avatar
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    Re: Bruce or Choo in CF?

    Choo's arm is not an upgrade to Bruce's. I like the best arm in RF to protect 3rd and a good Right Fielder makes a Center Fielder better.

    Bruce looks like he would be better in CF than Choo, but is it worth it? From a pitching perspective, I don't think either of them will replace the confidence they had in Stubbs, but Bruce would probably be better from that perspective. However, it is a pretty small center field and I wonder how much of a difference that will make? For that reason, I think I'd like to see Choo there at least until he proves he can't do it.
    Next Reds manager, second shooter. --Confirmed on Redszone.

  7. #21
    It's showtime! RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Bruce or Choo in CF?

    Quote Originally Posted by SunDeck View Post
    However, it is a pretty small center field and I wonder how much of a difference that will make? For that reason, I think I'd like to see Choo there at least until he proves he can't do it.
    They do play 81 games in other stadiums though...
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  8. #22
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    Re: Bruce or Choo in CF?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    Both Bruce and Choo are better from an arm perspective than a range one. But for Choo, the range is actually a problem and likely something that would be exacerbated in CF.
    Range was a problem for Choo last year, but prior to that it was never an issue. Before last season, he and Bruce were almost twins defensively. I guess you could say that 2012 portends a serious downgrade for Choo defensively, but to me it looks like an outlier. I'm willing to bet on a return to his career norms rather than 2012 being the new norm. Apparently, so is Walt.

  9. #23
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    Re: Bruce or Choo in CF?

    Quote Originally Posted by SunDeck View Post
    Choo's arm is not an upgrade to Bruce's. I like the best arm in RF to protect 3rd and a good Right Fielder makes a Center Fielder better.
    I think Choo might have the better arm. He has more OF assists and double plays than Bruce despite having slightly fewer chances. Honestly though, I don't think it matters. They are both elite throwers from RF. Regardless of where they play, teams will be reluctant to go for the extra base against either of them.

    On an unrelated note, what the heck happened with Ludwick last year? In researching the fielding stats for Choo/Bruce, I noticed that Ludwick didn't tally a single assist last year. That's from a guy who posted 35 assists in four years prior to his arrival in Cincinnati.
    Last edited by Steve4192; 12-13-2012 at 02:44 PM.

  10. #24
    Member 11larkin11's Avatar
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    Re: Bruce or Choo in CF?

    From the eye test, I think Choo's arm may be a bit better than Bruce's. There was an article last year that said some AL Scouts thought it was better than Ichiro's, even when Ichiro first came up.
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  11. #25
    First Time Caller SunDeck's Avatar
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    Re: Bruce or Choo in CF?

    I'm just looking at the chart posted in this thread, from which it looks like Choo's arm is not as good as Bruce's. I've not seen the kid play but a few times, but I know what I see from Bruce which is definitely elite.
    Next Reds manager, second shooter. --Confirmed on Redszone.

  12. #26
    First Time Caller SunDeck's Avatar
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    Re: Bruce or Choo in CF?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    They do play 81 games in other stadiums though...
    And some are small like GABP.
    Next Reds manager, second shooter. --Confirmed on Redszone.

  13. #27
    .377 in 1905 CySeymour's Avatar
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    Re: Bruce or Choo in CF?

    Quote Originally Posted by SunDeck View Post
    I'm just looking at the chart posted in this thread, from which it looks like Choo's arm is not as good as Bruce's. I've not seen the kid play but a few times, but I know what I see from Bruce which is definitely elite.
    The defensive metrics from each of the past two seasons indicate Bruce is declining defensively.
    ...the 2-2 to Woodsen and here it comes...and it is swung on and missed! And Tom Browning has pitched a perfect game! Twenty-seven outs in a row, and he is being mobbed by his teammates, just to the thirdbase side of the mound.

  14. #28
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    Re: Bruce or Choo in CF?

    It won't matter much who's out there, IMO.

    It is, at this point, what it's going to be. They'll likely have a poor CF defensively who will make up for that with offensive numbers. No matter who's out there, the difference between that person and the Drew Stubbs we saw in 2012 looks to be a pretty massive improvement. Neither Choo nor Bruce are going to be more than 20 runs below replacement (as it's almost impossible to be that bad with decent defenders to both sides of you-- which either CF would have-- and the few outs hit to you per game). Add on three pitchers who profile as ground ball guys (Cueto as an extreme example of that) on the starting staff, and you have to figure that it doesn't mean all that much in the overall scheme of things one way or another.

    Tilting at windmills, and all that.
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  15. #29
    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: Bruce or Choo in CF?

    Posted this in the signing thread, but if you are looking for some defensive highlights by Choo, here you go

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gq6ZcTyW4s
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

  16. #30
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Bruce or Choo in CF?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    It won't matter much who's out there, IMO.

    It is, at this point, what it's going to be. They'll likely have a poor CF defensively who will make up for that with offensive numbers. No matter who's out there, the difference between that person and the Drew Stubbs we saw in 2012 looks to be a pretty massive improvement. Neither Choo nor Bruce are going to be more than 20 runs below replacement (as it's almost impossible to be that bad with decent defenders to both sides of you-- which either CF would have-- and the few outs hit to you per game). Add on three pitchers who profile as ground ball guys (Cueto as an extreme example of that) on the starting staff, and you have to figure that it doesn't mean all that much in the overall scheme of things one way or another.

    Tilting at windmills, and all that.
    Not a single Reds starter induced 50% groundballs last season. Cueto and Leake were both at 48.9%. While that leans them more toward groundball than flyball, it isn't exactly making them groundball pitchers either. 142 pitchers threw 100+ innings last year. Cueto and Leake ranked 40th in GB rate among them. Better than average, but they are still allowing the ball in the air more than it is going to the ground.


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