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Thread: Are the Reds done dealing?

  1. #91
    One and a half men Patrick Bateman's Avatar
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    Re: Are the Reds done dealing?

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    agree to disagree. He's 26 this year, entering his prime years. prior to last year he had back to back 31 HR seasons. he's younger and likely to stay healthy and cheap. The opposite of Ludwick. Ludwick isn't exactly a known quantity. What is known is he had a very good bounce back year. What isn't know is his ability to sustain that success as he's got no real track record of doing that, not even in STL. Moore is a better value IMO, but it's moot as the Reds didn't even sniff to see if he was available. Ludwick's breakout season came at age 29. Moore's rookie year at age 25 was better than any Ludwick season prior to age 29. In 104 games last year, 29 AAA, 75 MLB he hit 19 HR's, 9 at AAA. Dude has monster power. I hope that with all the guys the Nats have brought in plus four of their top 10 prospects being OF's they see he is expendable and let him go.
    Here's a fairly recent article about Moore just for discussion purposes:

    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index...eive-the-call/

    He's described as a first basemen, so presumably he is not much of a fielder out in left. Although he clearly has a ton of power, that is mostly mitigated by his lack of patience, and he's not an overly high average hitter.

    In total, yes, he could break out, but Ludwick was more of an exception to the rule, and it's always easier to bet on a guy whom is coming off a strong year of success at the major league level, even if it was preceded by some awful years (albeit in pitchers parks that seem not to have fit Ludwick's skill set). I think more than likely Moore is going to be a Jonny Gomes type. He's going to mash lefties. He's going to provide inadequate defense in the outfield. He's also probably not going to be an asset against right handed pitching.

    In total, he's a guy that you consider bringing in to fight for at-bats, and spot in the right situation (and expand the role if it is meritted). I don't think he's a guy that you more or less hand the LF job to, especially in a year where the Reds are planning on contending. The loss of 1-2 wins by giving at-bats to an unknown quantity that doesn't project to being an above average major league starter could be a very regrettable mistake.

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  3. #92
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: Are the Reds done dealing?

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    my wish list was simple. 2 trades, neither of which came to fruition so they were likely not possible. I wanted Tyler Moore from the Nats and Dan Strailey from the A's. The players i was willing to give up were all traded: Stubbs, DiDi et al. Stubbs would have played well in Oakland, certainly his defense would have. Stubbs and DiDi for Strailey would have made me giddy. Leake for Moore. seems feasible. Then use Heisey as a placeholder until Hamilton arrives.

    Still I cannot complain about what did happen. I think Moore is better than Ludwick... and I think Moore is wasted in WAS, So i'd love to see a mid season trade.
    Well given the Reds small market/small payroll circumstances, I think this would have been an excellent acquisition. Moore actually doesn't turn 26 until January 30th. Yes, he played 1B primarily all through the minors, but they were converting him to an OFer in triple A, and he played primarily OF in his major league stint with no errors.

    These are the type of players the Reds need to take a chance on. Especially since they are lacking in power OFers in the upper minors.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  4. #93
    Member Superdude's Avatar
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    Re: Are the Reds done dealing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    Well given the Reds small market/small payroll circumstances, I think this would have been an excellent acquisition. Moore actually doesn't turn 26 until January 30th. Yes, he played 1B primarily all through the minors, but they were converting him to an OFer in triple A, and he played primarily OF in his major league stint with no errors.

    These are the type of players the Reds need to take a chance on. Especially since they are lacking in power OFers in the upper minors.
    On the other hand, we're paying to fill left field either way whether it's in cash or prospects. I don't think you can automatically assume Moore is a better small market move just because there wouldn't be a tangible dollar sign attached to it.

  5. #94
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: Are the Reds done dealing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Superdude View Post
    On the other hand, we're paying to fill left field either way whether it's in cash or prospects. I don't think you can automatically assume Moore is a better small market move just because there wouldn't be a tangible dollar sign attached to it.
    Well, one of my concerns is that the Reds have kind of done a flip flop in their minors. They used to produce more hitting prospects than pitching prospects, and that seems to have turned around.

    Right now, other than Billy Hamilton, the Reds most promising hitting prospect looks like Jesse Winker who was at Billings last season.

    But I know it could be argued that all major league positions are filled for the short long term - C - Hanigan/Mez, 1B - Votto, 2B - Phillips, SS - Cozart, 3B - Frazier, LF - Ludwick, CF - Choo/Hamilton, RF - Bruce. But I'd still like to see some better hitters in the upper minors, especially some power hitters.

    Reds have needed a LFer for awhile now. Ludwick is 34. Glad he was available, but still wish the farm could have filled that position, or a trade for a young guy with upside.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  6. #95
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Are the Reds done dealing?

    Moore had an outstanding albeit limited rookie year. His projected numbers over 500 AB's coupled with his last 2 full minor league seasons suggest a very strong possibility his numbers would surpass Ludwick's Plus he'll be 26 at the end of this month, is cheap and controllable for years, and though he would cost the Reds some prospects, probably not a ton of them. Oh, and he has no position in WAS, he's likely 5th on the depth chart. maybe 6th.

    He's an almost perfect target.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  7. #96
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: Are the Reds done dealing?

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    Moore had an outstanding albeit limited rookie year. His projected numbers over 500 AB's coupled with his last 2 full minor league seasons suggest a very strong possibility his numbers would surpass Ludwick's Plus he'll be 26 at the end of this month, is cheap and controllable for years, and though he would cost the Reds some prospects, probably not a ton of them. Oh, and he has no position in WAS, he's likely 5th on the depth chart. maybe 6th.

    He's an almost perfect target.
    I checked out Dan Straily's stats too. Probably the most dominant arm in the PCL. Had the highest K/9 rate, along with impressive H/9 and e.r.a. in the low 2.00's. Good target. But A's usually don't part with guys like that.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  8. #97
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Are the Reds done dealing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    I checked out Dan Straily's stats too. Probably the most dominant arm in the PCL. Had the highest K/9 rate, along with impressive H/9 and e.r.a. in the low 2.00's. Good target. But A's usually don't part with guys like that.
    Sure they do. because dealing him is dealing a strength. They have a pretty set rotation and their farm is fairly deep with arms. They need some offense. They are weak at 3B, Crisp isn't ideal at CF, and have offensive holes at C and 2B. Now do the reds have anything to offer? I think they did in DiDi, maybe Vidal. throw in a pitcher or two, say Corcino and Obispo, and that could get it done. Straily would be an outstanding replacement for Arroyo.

    of course the point is moot. the reds would have needed to send Stubbs at the very least to land Straily even with the other players i noted.
    Suck it up cupcake.


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