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Thread: Am l the only person who thinks moving Chapman to the rotation is a very risky move?!

  1. #31
    Arbiter of Good Taste OGB's Avatar
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    Re: Am l the only person who thinks moving Chapman to the rotation is a very risky mo

    To those throwing the "tired arm" thing out there like some kind of conspiracy theory, keep in mind that he was A) never once diagnosed with a "tired arm" and B) it didn't end his season.
    You're essentially projecting an imaginary hindrance on him because you think he should stay the closer.
    If Chapman didn't have the stamina or pitches to be a big league starter, the Reds' brass wouldn't have signed him to a 6 year contract, they wouldn't have had him working as a starter last spring, and they wouldn't be planning on moving him again this offseason. End of story.
    I may not be fast, but I sure am slow.

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  3. #32
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    Re: Am l the only person who thinks moving Chapman to the rotation is a very risky mo

    Quote Originally Posted by OGB View Post
    ...If Chapman didn't have the stamina or pitches to be a big league starter, the Reds' brass wouldn't have signed him to a 6 year contract, they wouldn't have had him working as a starter last spring, and they wouldn't be planning on moving him again this offseason. End of story.
    I've avoided this thread b/c it's already on record that I think attempting to move Chapman to the rotation is a mistake. For all of the reasons already stated and additionally my belief that he is more thrower than pitcher and doesn't possess the mental skillset to start.

    All that re-stated, I just can't let "End of story" be the end of the story. Just b/c Red's brass thinks something doesn't make it gospel. Are you implying they've never made a bonehead move? All the decisions ever made in the front office were the right ones? Come on man...

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    Re: Am l the only person who thinks moving Chapman to the rotation is a very risky mo

    Quote Originally Posted by scott91575 View Post
    None of the Reds starters pitched over 200 innings on a 5 day schedule until they started pitching in the bigs, and there are numerous very successful pitchers that pitched in the bullpen and then moved to starters. Chapman's starting routine was not different than Mike Leake before he became a starter in the major leagues.

    Oh, and certainly not all pitchers spend their entire career as a starter. I assume you mean starter, and even then I just gave you David Price and Adam Wainwright who didn't start as a starter. That would be a Cy Young winner and a Cy Young runner up. RA Dickey was a reliever. Roy Halladay made 25 relief appearances with the Jays in his early days. John Smoltz, of course, spent time as a closer before coming back to be an All Star starter again.
    Danny Graves did this too and it ruined his career.
    I was in the ORG once, best 6 months of my life.

  5. #34
    13 Belongs in Cooperstown Captain13's Avatar
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    Re: Am l the only person who thinks moving Chapman to the rotation is a very risky mo

    I would be curious to see how many of the people that don't want to move him to the rotation are the same ones who complained the last two seasons that the Reds were "wasting" Chapman in the bullpen.

    I, for one, thought the bullpen was a bad idea (I was wrong). Chapman was a starter in Cuba, signed as a starter, and paid as a starter...lets make him a starter. I see 60 innings as a closer or 180 innings as a starter, sounds like 3x the return on a starter.
    What if this is as good as it gets?

  6. #35
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    Re: Am l the only person who thinks moving Chapman to the rotation is a very risky mo

    I am very concerned that Chapman has a high risk of injury no matter where he is. I think that he is the most dominant reliever in baseball, so why mess with it?

    But, I also wonder... " What could have Chapman done as the game 2 starter in the NLDS against the Giants, instead of barely getting, what 2 appearances, can't remember if it was meaningful....

    So, instead we may have a rotation of Cueto, Latos, Chapman, Arroyo & Bailey. Bailey last Sept pitched like a solid #2 (or even 1), but with him in the 4 or 5 spot, this could be one helluva rotation.

    I hate to admit it I(because I fear the injuries that he appears to be susceptable to), but the risk may be worth the reward.
    Pete Rose will be leaving the Montreal Expos to become player - manager for the Cincinnati Reds

  7. #36
    Custodial Engineer Bob Sheed's Avatar
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    Re: Am l the only person who thinks moving Chapman to the rotation is a very risky mo

    Hard Throwing relief pitcher with fatigue and control problems.

    Sure, let's make him a starter.

    What could go wrong?
    "And why do false truths persist, getting passed down the decades as if they were fact? It comes back to the same point: People believe things that are wrong because, individually, people rarely investigate their own beliefs, particularly when what they believe makes sense intuitively. Even more so when those around them agree with them." -K.F.

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    Re: Am l the only person who thinks moving Chapman to the rotation is a very risky mo

    Quote Originally Posted by redsfanmia View Post
    Danny Graves did this too and it ruined his career.
    Danny Graves ruined his career by being Danny Graves. His year after starting was not much different than the years before in the bullpwn. Graves just got old and was not good to start with.
    Last edited by scott91575; 12-19-2012 at 10:57 PM.

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    Re: Am l the only person who thinks moving Chapman to the rotation is a very risky mo

    Its very risky but when you have an arm like this you're forced to give it a shot as a SP because if it pans out you can have a #1 level SP which are worth tons. I just hope it works better than Neftali Feliz did this year when the Rangers tried to do the same thing.

  10. #39
    Arbiter of Good Taste OGB's Avatar
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    Re: Am l the only person who thinks moving Chapman to the rotation is a very risky mo

    Quote Originally Posted by TSJ55 View Post
    I've avoided this thread b/c it's already on record that I think attempting to move Chapman to the rotation is a mistake. For all of the reasons already stated and additionally my belief that he is more thrower than pitcher and doesn't possess the mental skillset to start.

    All that re-stated, I just can't let "End of story" be the end of the story. Just b/c Red's brass thinks something doesn't make it gospel. Are you implying they've never made a bonehead move? All the decisions ever made in the front office were the right ones? Come on man...
    I used "end of story" as a figure of speech, so my apologies. That said, believe what you want about the Reds' front office ability to evaluate their own players, but I'm tired of forum members just tossing things out as fact that they've completely fabricated. This takes me back to the dozen or more simpletons who said Bailey would never succeed because he was a head case. All of that was based off of one Enquirer article years ago where some minor league guy made some kind of offhand remark about Homer being stubborn, or something like that.
    I may not be fast, but I sure am slow.

  11. #40
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    Re: Am l the only person who thinks moving Chapman to the rotation is a very risky mo

    Quote Originally Posted by OGB View Post
    I used "end of story" as a figure of speech, so my apologies.
    No apology necessary to be sure. No offense taken.

    Quote Originally Posted by OGB View Post
    That said, believe what you want about the Reds' front office ability to evaluate their own players, but I'm tired of forum members just tossing things out as fact that they've completely fabricated. This takes me back to the dozen or more simpletons who said Bailey would never succeed because he was a head case.
    I have to assume you're not grouping me in with the simpletons since I used "I think." and "my belief". As in, it's my opinion that... and not a fact. Ironically, the only factual type language I see is your "End of Story" You also didn't really address my question about Reds front office ever making a mistake.

    Quote Originally Posted by OGB View Post
    All of that was based off of one Enquirer article years ago where some minor league guy made some kind of offhand remark about Homer being stubborn, or something like that.
    I don't read the Enquirer so I'm not aware of this article.

    If they decide that Chappy should start, I hope it works out. I will gladly have a huge slice of humble pie in exchange for a big time dominant starter. I simply don't think he has the toolset to start. Heck, he may even be unstable enough that he can't recover from the attempted change. Only time will tell.
    Last edited by TSJ55; 12-20-2012 at 07:45 AM.

  12. #41
    ZCTRMTP!!!!! texasdave's Avatar
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    Re: Am l the only person who thinks moving Chapman to the rotation is a very risky mo

    Quote Originally Posted by OGB View Post
    I used "end of story" as a figure of speech, so my apologies. That said, believe what you want about the Reds' front office ability to evaluate their own players, but I'm tired of forum members just tossing things out as fact that they've completely fabricated. This takes me back to the dozen or more simpletons who said Bailey would never succeed because he was a head case. All of that was based off of one Enquirer article years ago where some minor league guy made some kind of offhand remark about Homer being stubborn, or something like that.

    I think Homer Bailey's stubborness is pretty well-documented. Some guy by the name of Dusty Baker said as much as recently as October of 2012.

    Q. Each of your starters has a different personality or makeup or something. What stands out about Homer Bailey both to you in personality and make up and why did he blossom so much this year?

    DUSTY BAKER: Number one, I think he blossomed because he has remained healthy for the first time in his career. You hope that a person blossoms and matures just through natural living and learning from your mistakes.
    Our guys are different. I urge them to be different. You don't want everybody to be cloned to be the same on your team. That's not what life is all about. We have guys from different walks of life, different countries, different states, different one guy drives a truck, one guy drives a BMW and the other guy drives whatever. I urge them to be themselves and I've said many times, his strength is also his weakness sometimes where he's a bit stubborn sometimes, but that's a good trait if you can direct it to the right direction.
    http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?...s_mlb&c_id=mlb
    A summer watching a bad Reds' team, is still a pretty good summer.

  13. #42
    Arbiter of Good Taste OGB's Avatar
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    Re: Am l the only person who thinks moving Chapman to the rotation is a very risky mo

    Quote Originally Posted by texasdave View Post
    I think Homer Bailey's stubborness is pretty well-documented. Some guy by the name of Dusty Baker said as much as recently as October of 2012.



    http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?...s_mlb&c_id=mlb
    I feel like you just helped make my point. Where from that statement or any other past remarks would one get "headcase."
    I may not be fast, but I sure am slow.

  14. #43
    Arbiter of Good Taste OGB's Avatar
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    Re: Am l the only person who thinks moving Chapman to the rotation is a very risky mo

    Quote Originally Posted by TSJ55 View Post
    No apology necessary to be sure. No offense taken.



    I have to assume you're not grouping me in with the simpletons since I used "I think." and "my belief". As in, it's my opinion that... and not a fact. Ironically, the only factual type language I see is your "End of Story" You also didn't really address my question about Reds front office ever making a mistake.



    I don't read the Enquirer so I'm not aware of this article.

    If they decide that Chappy should start, I hope it works out. I will gladly have a huge slice of humble pie in exchange for a big time dominant starter. I simply don't think he has the toolset to start. Heck, he may even be unstable enough that he can't recover from the attempted change. Only time will tell.
    I was talking about people in general, not you in particular.

    Chapman was given time off last year after a stretch of ineffective relief pitching. How that leads people to believe he's incapable of throwing a starters ininngs is beyond me. This is a guy who was a starter until a few seasons ago and spent all last offseason/spring training in that role.
    I may not be fast, but I sure am slow.

  15. #44
    ZCTRMTP!!!!! texasdave's Avatar
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    Re: Am l the only person who thinks moving Chapman to the rotation is a very risky mo

    I wonder if Hal McCoy would know more than a poster on a message board?

    Hal McCoy was just on Charlie Steiner's XM show.

    When asked about Homer Bailey he said....."Homer is a little bit of a headcase. He doesn't like to listen to people. He might get a dose of Louisville..."
    A summer watching a bad Reds' team, is still a pretty good summer.

  16. #45
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    Re: Am l the only person who thinks moving Chapman to the rotation is a very risky mo

    Quote Originally Posted by scott91575 View Post
    Danny Graves ruined his career by being Danny Graves. His year after starting was not much different than the years before in the bullpwn. Graves just got old and was not good to start with.
    Graves was a good closer, he is the Reds all time leader in saves.
    I was in the ORG once, best 6 months of my life.


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