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View Poll Results: Is votto a shoe-in hall of fame candidate?

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  • Hell yes...assuming that he plays like this 10 years from now still.

    21 72.41%
  • No..nothing stat wise jumps out. He's a good player, but not a hall of fame worthy player.

    9 31.03%
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Thread: Is Joey Votto a shoe-in hall of fame candidate?

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  1. #1
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    Is Joey Votto a shoe-in hall of fame candidate?

    Assuming he stays as productive as he is 10 years from now.

    I imagine he would be?

    There's nothing staggering about his career stats in terms of home runs or anything, but he does have a career .316 batting average, a career .415 OBP, 429 Walks to 562 Strike Outs which is a GREAT ratio!

    He's a 3 time All Star thus far, MVP winner, and Gold Glove Winner.

    Great offense skills, great defense skills, great plate displine, great work ethic.

    If injuries don't hinder his future, and if he continues doing what he's been achieving these past straight 6 years, than i would think he's an absolute shoe in.

  2. #2
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    Re: Is Joey Votto a shoe-in hall of fame candidate?

    5 more years of this production hes a shoe in.

  3. #3
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    Re: Is Joey Votto a shoe-in hall of fame candidate?

    Quote Originally Posted by webbbj View Post
    5 more years of this production hes a shoe in.
    he would need more that 5 more years

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    Re: Is Joey Votto a shoe-in hall of fame candidate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Krawhitham View Post
    he would need more that 5 more years
    With they way voters tend to vote, if those 5 years resulted in at least 2 more MVPs (which is highly possible), those 5 could possibly suffice.

  5. #5
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    Re: Is Joey Votto a shoe-in hall of fame candidate?

    Quote Originally Posted by drowg14 View Post
    With they way voters tend to vote, if those 5 years resulted in at least 2 more MVPs (which is highly possible), those 5 could possibly suffice.
    I agree. In regards to HOF voting I think we should focus on what a player accomplished inb their prime. Not the last 4-5 years of their careers when they are jst hanging on to what they once were.

    Most players prime seasons are maybe 8-10 years. If Vottot puts up 5 more great years he will have a great career.

  6. #6
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    Re: Is Joey Votto a shoe-in hall of fame candidate?

    I voted yes on the poll, because IF Joey keeps up the same level of production for the next 10 years, then I do think he's a shoo-in for the Hall of Fame.

    However, in reality, I don't think there's any way he keeps up this level of production for another 10 years. I think in 10 year, Joey will be a Todd Helton-type player, where he can hit for average and get on base a lot, but his power won't be anywhere near where it is not.

    If Todd Helton a shoo-in Hall of Famer? Probably not, but he'll get consideration. I love Joey, but I'd say chances are against him being a Hall of Famer at this point.

  7. #7
    Pimpin...literally!!! dubc47834's Avatar
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    Re: Is Joey Votto a shoe-in hall of fame candidate?

    I don't know if right now he is a 1st ballot guy, but think he gets in 2nd or 3rd year. If he continues having great years I could see where he would be a 1st ballot guy.

  8. #8
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    Re: Is Joey Votto a shoe-in hall of fame candidate?

    Ten more years at his current production, I think he'd definitely be a first ballot HOFer.
    "I talked to an advance scout that told me if Joey Votto and Albert Pujols were on the same team he'd advise his team to do the unthinkable...pitch around Votto to get to Pujols." - Buster Olney, ESPN

  9. #9
    Salukifan2
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    Re: Is Joey Votto a shoe-in hall of fame candidate?

    As of right now i don't think so. For the sake of my argument i am going to compare him to jim rice.

    Rice through his age 28 season stats: 233hr, 731rbi, 1252 hits, .304 avg, .351 obp, .881 ops

    Since votto's birthday is in september and he has yet to play in his age 28 season im going to add his Fan graphs projected stats for this upcoming season to his totals.

    Votto through his age 28 season: 160 hr, 554 rbi, 1002 hits, .316 avg, 415 obp, .968 ops (since fan graphs doesn't give a projection for hits i gave him 180 for next season which is about career average or him).

    They had both won an mvp by this point in their careers and Rice had finished in the top 5 in mvp voting 4 times compared to votto's 1 time. At the same point in their careers Rice was a 4 time all star compared to votto's 3 times. Rice also led the league in total baes for 3 straight seasons becoming the first person to accumulate over 400 total bases in 1978 since 1959. Votto's largest TB for a season is 328 Rice did better than that 3 times. both of them had missed time due to injuries at this point in their careers. Rice had led the league in homers twice compared to zero times for Votto. their strike out numbers are very similar Rice also lost about 50 games because of the shortened season in 1981. Through the age 28 season Rice had proven to be more durable than Votto as well playing in 93.5% of games compared to Votto's 87% of games. ( I only counted games in seasons where they were on the 25 man by opening day. didn't count sept. call ups).

    Rice was on the ballot for 15 years before finally getting voted in. Therefore, as of right now votto is nowhere close to being a shoe in for the hall and he might be more on track to hope for a call from the veterans committee if anything. Naturally this could all change and Votto could win the next three MVP's and the reds the next three world series which would definitely make him a first ballot hall of famer. But as of right now, i don't see it.
    Last edited by Salukifan2; 12-19-2012 at 05:00 PM.

  10. #10
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    Re: Is Joey Votto a shoe-in hall of fame candidate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brittingham.Sam View Post
    As of right now i don't think so. For the sake of my argument i am going to compare him to jim rice.

    Rice through his age 28 season stats: 233hr, 731rbi, 1252 hits

    Since votto's birthday is in september and he has yet to play in his age 28 season im going to add his Fan graphs projected stats for this upcoming season to his totals.

    Votto through his age 28 season: 160 hr, 554 rbi, 1002 hits (since fan graphs doesn't give a projection for hits i gave him 180 for next season which is about career average or him).

    They had both won an mvp by this point in their careers and Rice had finished in the top 5 in mvp voting 4 times compare to votto's 1 time. At the same point in their careers Rice was a 4 time all star compared to votto's 3 times.

    Rice was on the ballot for 15 years before finally getting voted in. Therefore, as of right now votto is nowhere close to being a shoe in for the hall and he might be more on track to hope for a call from the veterans committee if anything. Naturally this could all change and Votto could win the next three MVP's and the reds the next three world series which would definitely make him a first ballot hall of famer. But as of right now, i don't see it.
    The question was if Joey maintains his current production for ten more years. Rice is an ok comparison offensively, but he retired at 36 and was basically done after he turned 34. Joey blows him away in BBs, OBP and OPS. Rice never won a Gold Glove either, while Joey is arguably the best defensive first baseman in the league.
    "I talked to an advance scout that told me if Joey Votto and Albert Pujols were on the same team he'd advise his team to do the unthinkable...pitch around Votto to get to Pujols." - Buster Olney, ESPN

  11. #11
    Salukifan2
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    Re: Is Joey Votto a shoe-in hall of fame candidate?

    Quote Originally Posted by New York Red View Post
    The question was if Joey maintains his current production for ten more years. Rice is an ok comparison offensively, but he retired at 36 and was basically done after he turned 34. Joey blows him away in BBs, OBP and OPS. Rice never won a Gold Glove either, while Joey is arguably the best defensive first baseman in the league.
    So you assume Votto will maintain this production for 10 more years? Yeah, if he starts raiding Mark McGwire's medicine cabinet. Ill give you there are parts to Votto's game that are better than Rice's but overall rice had been more productive at that point in his career.

    My point was that if it took Rice 15 years of being on the ballot to get voted in and his production was that much more impressive at this point in their careers (which it is. Yes votto draws more walks, has a nicer ops and obp but hadn't collected nearly as many total bases, rbi's or hr's) then votto should probably only get in on the veterans committee.
    Last edited by Salukifan2; 12-19-2012 at 05:32 PM.

  12. #12
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    Re: Is Joey Votto a shoe-in hall of fame candidate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brittingham.Sam View Post
    As of right now i don't think so. For the sake of my argument i am going to compare him to jim rice.

    Rice through his age 28 season stats: 233hr, 731rbi, 1252 hits, .304 avg, .351 obp, .881 ops

    Since votto's birthday is in september and he has yet to play in his age 28 season im going to add his Fan graphs projected stats for this upcoming season to his totals.

    Votto through his age 28 season: 160 hr, 554 rbi, 1002 hits, .316 avg, 415 obp, .968 ops (since fan graphs doesn't give a projection for hits i gave him 180 for next season which is about career average or him).

    They had both won an mvp by this point in their careers and Rice had finished in the top 5 in mvp voting 4 times compare to votto's 1 time. At the same point in their careers Rice was a 4 time all star compared to votto's 3 times. Rice also led the league in total baes for 3 straight seasons becoming the first person to accumulate over 400 total bases in 1978 since 1959. Votto's largest TB for a season is 328 Rice did better than that 3 times. And both of them had missed time due to injuries at this point in their careers.

    Rice was on the ballot for 15 years before finally getting voted in. Therefore, as of right now votto is nowhere close to being a shoe in for the hall and he might be more on track to hope for a call from the veterans committee if anything. Naturally this could all change and Votto could win the next three MVP's and the reds the next three world series which would definitely make him a first ballot hall of famer. But as of right now, i don't see it.
    This difference between the two I think is era that they played in. Just as a quick counter argument, Rice's career wRC+ is 128, Votto's is 156 (Although Rice's did come down during the second half of his career). So basically, I'll agree with some of the others in saying that if he keeps up his current level of production for at least 5 more years, and has at least 1 or 2 more MVP's sprinkled in there, he'll be in the hall. But if he starts to decline at 30, it'll be a much tougher go.

    I think his biggest challenge is if/when voters compare him to Pujols, since they played partly during the same time. Pujols hit the majors quite a bit younger than Votto, and so far, as shown a higher peak.

  13. #13
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    Re: Is Joey Votto a shoe-in hall of fame candidate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brittingham.Sam View Post
    As of right now i don't think so. For the sake of my argument i am going to compare him to jim rice.

    Rice through his age 28 season stats: 233hr, 731rbi, 1252 hits, .304 avg, .351 obp, .881 ops

    Since votto's birthday is in september and he has yet to play in his age 28 season im going to add his Fan graphs projected stats for this upcoming season to his totals.

    Votto through his age 28 season: 160 hr, 554 rbi, 1002 hits, .316 avg, 415 obp, .968 ops (since fan graphs doesn't give a projection for hits i gave him 180 for next season which is about career average or him).

    They had both won an mvp by this point in their careers and Rice had finished in the top 5 in mvp voting 4 times compared to votto's 1 time. At the same point in their careers Rice was a 4 time all star compared to votto's 3 times. Rice also led the league in total baes for 3 straight seasons becoming the first person to accumulate over 400 total bases in 1978 since 1959. Votto's largest TB for a season is 328 Rice did better than that 3 times. both of them had missed time due to injuries at this point in their careers. Rice had led the league in homers twice compared to zero times for Votto. their strike out numbers are very similar Rice also lost about 50 games because of the shortened season in 1981. Through the age 28 season Rice had proven to be more durable than Votto as well playing in 93.5% of games compared to Votto's 87% of games. ( I only counted games in seasons where they were on the 25 man by opening day. didn't count sept. call ups).

    Rice was on the ballot for 15 years before finally getting voted in. Therefore, as of right now votto is nowhere close to being a shoe in for the hall and he might be more on track to hope for a call from the veterans committee if anything. Naturally this could all change and Votto could win the next three MVP's and the reds the next three world series which would definitely make him a first ballot hall of famer. But as of right now, i don't see it.
    Jim Rice's career best OPS+ was 157, Joey Votto's career average OPS+ is 155, so basically Jim Rice's best year is Joey Votto's average, not sure it's a great comp.

    Jim Rice topped a .900 OPS four times in his career, and never topped 1.
    Joey Votto has already topped .900 four times, and has topped 1 twice.

    Also with Pujols and Fielder now in the AL, there isn't much in the way of Votto being a constant All-Star.

  14. #14
    Salukifan2
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    Re: Is Joey Votto a shoe-in hall of fame candidate?

    Votto did not produce the same amount runs as jim rice. at all. Its not even close. I understand Votto has a fantastic eye which make his OPS go through the roof. But They slugged very similarly through age 28.

    Also votto isn't out of his prime yet, he too will see his ops and slugging fall as he gets past 32 years old just like everyone else.

  15. #15
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    Re: Is Joey Votto a shoe-in hall of fame candidate?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brittingham.Sam View Post
    Votto did not produce the same amount runs as jim rice. at all. Its not even close. I understand Votto has a fantastic eye which make his OPS go through the roof. But They slugged very similarly through age 28.

    Also votto isn't out of his prime yet, he too will see his ops and slugging fall as he gets past 32 years old just like everyone else.
    By produce do you mean RBI? RBIs are not a gauge of talent. They are a gauge for the lineup you are placed in, where in the lineup you are, and the run environment of the era/ballpark.

    If you go by wRC+ (The amount of runs a player creates compared to the rest of his peers, ballpark adjusted) Votto did produce more runs than Jim Rice.


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