Yawn. A steal for the Reds. Young back of the bullpen power arm for that? There is a reason he is barely mentioned after the deal. I'm glad the Reds are past the era where Francisco would be pumped up by a clueless organization as the next great thing because he can occasionally hit the ball really, really far.
Can't win with 'em
Can't win without 'em
I think Walt has shown expertise in building a ballclub with the Reds.
1. Emphasizing pitching and defense to become a playoff team.
2. Trading prospects for veterans when the team was ready to emerge.
3. Then, recognizing certain offensive holes and filling them this off-season.
Very methodical approach and the result is a contending team which should continue to contend for years to come.
If you want to do a post mortem for the benefit of future deals, go for it. But this is a trade of an average/below average glove power hitting corner infielder struggling to get on base and make contact, a trait projected to limit his power impact as a major leaguer, for an immediate impact power reliever with closer potential. That is a smart deal by a GM, one he has made repeatedly--dealing spare parts for something he really needs.
Can't win with 'em
Can't win without 'em
I guess if just making the playoffs is the goal, sure. He can do wrong if he fails to address glaring deficiencies which IMO he has done a few times now. This off-season I feel like he has addressed almost everything he possibly could. Though I still think it would be wise to find a Bourjos type of player as a just in case.
Choo may or may not struggle a great deal in CF but he hasn't exactly been injury free as of late, without him we have almost no alternatives to hit leadoff. Cozart goes back to #2 and I suspect year #2 will be much tougher at the plate for him. X. Paul and Heisey might be platooning in game if that happens. Last year we had even less leadoff alternatives and most of us knew it coming in, no reason he shouldn't have known it and filled it. Before that it was a decent RHH middle of the order guy who also came a year later than it should have.
That may seem like nitpicking the guy because he has done alot of good but I felt the same before each of those seasons so this isn't in hindsight. Perhaps right now we have a championship if those moves are made, or at least a playoff series win. There's also the eventual question if some of these extensions (BP's being the biggest one) are gonna cost us the ability to compete in the future. Who do we lose because we kept Phillips who is important but not necessarily so integral to keep for so long at such a high price?!
Can he do wrong, sure IMO he already has.
Last edited by Mario-Rijo; 12-23-2012 at 09:48 PM.
"You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."
Francisco is a third baseman with significant power who can be effective against RHP and likely is a platoon man. He is a low OBP, good SLG man. He has been error prone, but has a very good arm and had a +3.0 UZR and an 11.6 UZR/150 last season for the Braves.
Hoover is a hard throwing pitcher who was converted from starter to relief. His stuff is quite good and he could very well wind up in as a short reliever pitching the late innings. In 30.2 major league innings last year he averaged 9.1 Ks and 3.8 BBs per nine innings and had a very good ERA and WHIP. He has shown a tendency to throw fly balls.
But neither your description, nor mine, means anything in judging a trade. The proof will be when the players have a meaningful number of major league appearances. Until then, all we know is a bunch of scouting reports and verbiage, which doesn't prove much IMO.
It's a trade of a platoon player for a relief pitcher, Walt's reputation won't live or die on this deal, but I think more time is needed to evaluate it.
Last edited by Kc61; 12-23-2012 at 10:35 PM.
You can't blame him for Corey Patterson.. That's all on Wayne K.. Now in Wayne's defense, I don't think it was a horrible gamble.. it was like 1 year/3 million (IIRC) and the Reds were a horrible defensive team that desperately needed a defensive upgrade. So in the grand scheme of things, Wayne certainly had much worse offenses than Patterson.
Walt deserves an A++++++++ for his tenure here as a whole. By the time he retires, he may be the best GM the Reds have had in my lifetime.
Just think.. if someone on Redszone proposed trading Stubbs + Didi for Choo with the Indians eating the salary difference, I think that poster would be laughed at for proposing a fantasy trade. Yet, Walt made it happen. Honestly, I think bringing back Broxton and Ludwick at reasonable prices deserves praise too.
Thank you Walt and Bob for bringing winning baseball back to Cincy -- it was nice while it lasted..
Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!
I think Doug summed things up well in his lengthy post. Obviously the Rolen deal is a lightning rod for controversy with Doug, but overall he has a fair assessment of Walt.
I think calling Hoover an "immediate impact power reliever" is a bit much. I'd wager the Reds still easily win the division without him, so I don't see him as having been a "needed part". Just trying to keep a fair perspective.
Yep, I'm with the jury's still out crowd, though I'm a fan of the deal so far.
Walt has done a great job and has especially been on a hot streak the last couple years.
Many say other GMs could have done the same and I guess that's true. But the good ones make the job look easy and his decisions and trades have been rock-solid. Lots of guys have walked into what seemed to be a no-brainer can't-lose kind of situation and screwed it up. Walt didn't.
The motel of lost companions,
Waits with heated pool and bar
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