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Thread: Ryan Freel commits suicide

  1. #136
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    Re: Ryan Freel commits suicide

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfboy View Post
    Brain damage isn't an acceptable reason for suicide, it's the cause of the suicide. CTE is a form of encephalopathy - a category of diseases that cause brain dysfunction. Although scientists are learning more about CTE every day, one of its primary characteristics is severe brain dysfunction. The brain just wastes away.
    This is an excellent description of CTE. One of the primary areas of the brain that wastes away (or atrophies) in CTE is the frontal cortex, which just so happens to be the area of the brain associated with a wide variety of tasks and functions, including personality traits, emotions, critical thinking skills, and memory, among many others.

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  4. #137
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    Re: Ryan Freel commits suicide

    Quote Originally Posted by wolfboy View Post
    And while it's convenient to blame that on selfish behavior or a lack of personal will, it's a lazy explanation.
    So is blaming CTE. We have no idea what role, if any, it played in Ryan Freel's suicide, and yet there are dozens of posts in this tread doing exactly that.

  5. #138
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    Re: Ryan Freel commits suicide

    Quote Originally Posted by kpresidente View Post
    So is blaming CTE. We have no idea what role, if any, it played in Ryan Freel's suicide, and yet there are dozens of posts in this tread doing exactly that.
    Are you critiquing the media coverage's lopsided coverage of the CTE angle, the integrity of the CTE test itself, or the hypocrisy of RedsZone posters who are critiquing fellow posters who believe Freel's suicide was a conscious, selfish decision?
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  6. #139
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    Re: Ryan Freel commits suicide

    Quote Originally Posted by kpresidente View Post
    So is blaming CTE. We have no idea what role, if any, it played in Ryan Freel's suicide, and yet there are dozens of posts in this tread doing exactly that.
    We know a lot about what brain damage does to our mental states, despite your completely bizarre insistence to the contrary
    They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
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  7. #140
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    Re: Ryan Freel commits suicide

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds View Post
    We know a lot about what brain damage does to our mental states, despite your completely bizarre insistence to the contrary
    I wouldn't even bother with him.
    How do we know he's not Mel Torme?

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  9. #141
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    Re: Ryan Freel commits suicide

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds View Post
    We know a lot about what brain damage does to our mental states, despite your completely bizarre insistence to the contrary
    I'll note that you find my dead-on accuracy "bizarre"....

    Traumatic brain injury (TBI) is a global health concern, and the recent literature reports that a single mild TBI can result in chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE). It has been suggested that CTE may lead to death by suicide, raising important prevention, treatment, and policy implications. Thus, we conducted a systematic review of the medical literature to answer the key question: What is the existing evidence in support of a relationship between CTE and suicide? Systematic searches of CTE and suicide yielded 85 unique abstracts. Seven articles were identified for full text review. Only two case series met inclusion criteria and included autopsies from 17 unique cases, 5 of whom died by suicide. Neither studies used blinding, control cases, or systematic data collection regarding TBI exposure and/or medical/neuropsychiatric history. The identified CTE literature revealed divergent opinions regarding neuropathological elements of CTE and heterogeneity regarding clinical manifestations. Overall quality of evidence regarding a relationship between CTE and suicide was rated as very low using Grading of Recommendations Assessment, Development and Evaluation Working Group (GRADE) criteria. Further studies of higher quality and methodological rigor are needed to determine the existence and nature of any relationship between CTE and suicide.
    Exactly as I stated and exactly contradictory to your obfuscation.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24328030
    Last edited by kpresidente; 12-17-2013 at 10:39 PM.

  10. #142
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    Re: Ryan Freel commits suicide

    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Schuler View Post
    Are you critiquing the media coverage's lopsided coverage of the CTE angle, the integrity of the CTE test itself, or the hypocrisy of RedsZone posters who are critiquing fellow posters who believe Freel's suicide was a conscious, selfish decision?
    The first, though not necessarily limited to the media. I don't doubt that he had CTE.

    And those pointing to other possible causes are making no more of a baseless speculation than those pointing to the CTE, they're just outnumbered.
    Last edited by kpresidente; 12-17-2013 at 10:38 PM.

  11. #143
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    Re: Ryan Freel commits suicide

    All possible causes aside, the fact remains that he decided to put a gun to his head and pull the trigger.

    I don't think mental illness can be the main cause for a person to do such a thing. It could have contributed, sure, but I think Freel was dealing with some major problems in his life.

    My father suffered 4 concussions toward the end of his life (he fell down stairs several times). He was a chronic alcoholic who battled depression for years. He also owned several guns. As a young man he was incredibly intelligent, but when he died his brain was functioning incredibly poorly. He could barely keep a thought in his head, or tell a story. He died from a ruptured stomach ulcer.

    I'm not saying my dad should have been an obvious case for suicide, I'm saying when people kill themselves it's a conscious decision. Freel chose to do what he did. Mental problems could have contributed to it, but I don't think they caused it.

  12. #144
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    Re: Ryan Freel commits suicide

    Quote Originally Posted by jhiller21 View Post
    I don't think mental illness can be the main cause for a person to do such a thing. It could have contributed, sure, but I think Freel was dealing with some major problems in his life.
    The point is that mental illness diminishes a person's ability to cope with major problems, whether it is the initial cause of those problems or not.

    The definition of "conscious" -- i.e., clear-thinking -- becomes very muddy. Does a soupy brain pull a trigger? Well, metaphorically, it can. It's hard for clear-thinking people to grasp, but the neurons in a damaged brain simply aren't functioning the same way that ours are. Their powers of logic are stunted and it's difficult for them to find multiple ways out of one situation. And the degree to which they are functioning varies from damaged brain to damaged brain.

    I haven't read through this whole thread so I don't know if this has been referenced, but the best piece I've ever read on this subject was the New York Times' piece on Derek Boogaard a couple of years ago. It's very long -- with the videos and everything, it took me hours to get through -- but it's excellent. Totally changed my views on hockey.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/04/sp...-to-brawl.html

    edit: The article goes into great detail about what scientists found in Boogaard's brain and the implications of it, but this page has a short video displaying the mechanics of it.
    Last edited by vaticanplum; 12-18-2013 at 03:24 PM.
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  13. #145
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    Re: Ryan Freel commits suicide

    An interesting, sad read. Haven't seen this posted anywhere. Apologies if it has been.

    http://www.sportsnet.ca/magazine/when-the-game-is-gone/
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  14. #146
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    Re: Ryan Freel commits suicide

    Quote Originally Posted by dabvu2498 View Post
    An interesting, sad read. Haven't seen this posted anywhere. Apologies if it has been.

    http://www.sportsnet.ca/magazine/when-the-game-is-gone/
    Heart wrenching.
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    Re: Ryan Freel commits suicide

    I hate that this story is being blindly lumped into the CTE pile after reading that article. Mental illness, alcohol and drug abuse and repeated brain trauma combined together? Combine that with the "withdraw" from the high he received from playing baseball. The guy was a ticking time bomb. There is little doubt in my mind that the CTE contributed to the deterioration of his mental health but this was far from a guy with stable mental health prior to the concussions.

    Sad, sad story.

  16. #148
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    Re: Ryan Freel commits suicide

    Quote Originally Posted by MoneyInTheBank View Post
    I hate that this story is being blindly lumped into the CTE pile after reading that article. Mental illness, alcohol and drug abuse and repeated brain trauma combined together? Combine that with the "withdraw" from the high he received from playing baseball. The guy was a ticking time bomb. There is little doubt in my mind that the CTE contributed to the deterioration of his mental health but this was far from a guy with stable mental health prior to the concussions.

    Sad, sad story.
    I agree with this poster. While I dont think you can say CTE caused Freel to kill himself, i do feel that it was a contributing factor. Suicide is a sad ordeal. How bad off would a person have to be that they feel the only way to make things better is to kill themselves...sad sad thing. Suicide is a permanent answer to a temporary problem!!!

  17. #149
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    Re: Ryan Freel commits suicide

    Quote Originally Posted by dabvu2498 View Post
    An interesting, sad read. Haven't seen this posted anywhere. Apologies if it has been.

    http://www.sportsnet.ca/magazine/when-the-game-is-gone/
    Just read this. A well written but sad story. Everyone should take the time to read this.
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  18. #150
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    Re: Ryan Freel commits suicide

    I'm trying to phrase this nicely, but Freel was battling demons with alcohol/anger issues/depression before he started running head first into things. I don't doubt CTE had an effect on him, but that wasn't the only battle he was fighting.
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