Ryan Freel commits suicide

[Chip R]

And yet the NFL has a lower suicide rate than the general population. There are a thousand things that lead to depression. I have no doubt that CTE contributes, but nobody really knows how much at this point.

True but as I said, depression and drug/alcohol abuse and dementia seem to be what happens to these people before they commit suicide. Then when their brains are examined, they show signs of CTE. So there seems to be somewhat of a pattern here and it shouldn't be ignored because the NFL has a lower suicide rate than the regular population.

[kpresidente]

True but as I said, depression and drug/alcohol abuse and dementia seem to be what happens to these people before they commit suicide. Then when their brains are examined, they show signs of CTE. So there seems to be somewhat of a pattern here and it shouldn't be ignored because the NFL has a lower suicide rate than the regular population.

I don't suggest ignoring it, but Ryan Freel's suicide has already been basically chalked up to CTE in the media despite the fact there's no way to determine whether or how much it contributed. For example, genetics make a huge contribution to depression and alcoholism, yet I haven't seen one comment in any story I've read on this asking about his family history. Or any of the other myriad possible causes. Why?

[GullyFoyle]

Just a pull from Wikipedia to help nail down some of the current info on CTE:

Clinical symptoms of CTE are only beginning to be understood. They are thought to include changes in mood (i.e. depression, suicidality, apathy, anxiety), cognition (i.e. memory loss, executive dysfunction), behavior (short fuse, aggression), and in some cases motor disturbance (i.e. difficulty with balance and gait). While the pathology of CTE has been broken up into stages,[8] the clinical symptoms and clinical progression of CTE are not yet fully understood.

[kearns and dunn]

Closure?

Look, I get that brain damage sucks, and that it does terrible things to people, but since when has that been an acceptable reason to kill yourself? He left behind a family...I'm sorry, but I will always consider suicide a selfish act.

[kbrake]

Closure?

Look, I get that brain damage sucks, and that it does terrible things to people, but since when has that been an acceptable reason to kill yourself? He left behind a family...I'm sorry, but I will always consider suicide a selfish act.

You can consider it a "selfish" act if you have never dealt with depression. In a mind that has never dealt with it of course it is "selfish". For people who have dealt with it first hand I don't think it is a matter of being selfish. You can lose a battle with depression just like you can lose a battle with any other sickness. Please don't judge someone because you have never experienced the sickness they deal with.

[bigredmechanism]

You can consider it a "selfish" act if you have never dealt with depression. In a mind that has never dealt with it of course it is "selfish". For people who have dealt with it first hand I don't think it is a matter of being selfish. You can lose a battle with depression just like you can lose a battle with any other sickness. Please don't judge someone because you have never experienced the sickness they deal with.

+1. Depression is nasty. I've been lucky in that department but many close ones I've known have battled it. Not easy at all.

[kearns and dunn]

You can consider it a "selfish" act if you have never dealt with depression. In a mind that has never dealt with it of course it is "selfish". For people who have dealt with it first hand I don't think it is a matter of being selfish. You can lose a battle with depression just like you can lose a battle with any other sickness. Please don't judge someone because you have never experienced the sickness they deal with.

And you know I haven't suffered from depression because...why? Please don't judge when you don't know.

With that said, anybody who leaves behind a family (including children) is committing a selfish act.

[Wonderful Monds]

Closure?

Look, I get that brain damage sucks, and that it does terrible things to people, but since when has that been an acceptable reason to kill yourself? He left behind a family...I'm sorry, but I will always consider suicide a selfish act.

That's not how that works. You can't just hand wave away brain damage like that.

[kbrake]

And you know I haven't suffered from depression because...why? Please don't judge when you don't know.

With that said, anybody who leaves behind a family (including children) is committing a selfish act.

Because I know if you had gone through a battle with depression you wouldn't be blaming someone for losing their battle. Maybe it is a little different for everyone but I'm telling you on a very personal level please don't say it is selfish, I can't help but think you don't get it.

[Larry Schuler]

It's a luxury to believe so confidently that there is some independent baseline for one's identity and personality that isn't incredibly dependent on mental health and chemical balance. Taking a hardline concrete stance like "suicide is always selfish" feels like a desperate grasp at certainty in an uncertain existence. Rejecting info like brain condition and other contexts doesn't bring you closer to controlling life and avoiding tragedy.

[MWM]

I understand brain damage may have been a large factor, but isn't it also possible that depression and alcohol had a lot to do with it as well?

It's kind of a chicken/egg scenario, and we'll never really know for sure. I still think Freel was dealing with some pretty bad problems off the field.

Anyone willing to risk their body the way he did to catch a baseball has something wrong with them. I was in the sun deck (first row) during a game where he slammed into the wall to make a catch. You could feel your seat shake when he crashed into it.

The play he made in Chicago for a foul ball against the dugout was insane. He could have broken his neck. It's almost like he played the game like he didn't have anything else to live for. Still a sad story, even years later.

I think it's best to leave it to the scientists to draw conclusions.

[Superdude]

It's a luxury to believe so confidently that there is some independent baseline for one's identity and personality that isn't incredibly dependent on mental health and chemical balance.

An incredibly disconcerting thought, but unfortunately true. Can't even imagine going through what Freel must have went through towards the end.

[bounty37h]

And you know I haven't suffered from depression because...why? Please don't judge when you don't know.

With that said, anybody who leaves behind a family (including children) is committing a selfish act.

True, we don't know your story, but to not have a better understanding of it and how it impacts people...well, it certainly makes one wonder. It may seem selfish, but there is so much more behind it as most who have experienced it firsthand (either themselves, or a loved one who has/is going through it). My brother committed suicide when I was in college-he had dealt with severe depression for years to the point I really don't even think it was "him" at the point he took his own life.

[wolfboy]

Closure?

Look, I get that brain damage sucks, and that it does terrible things to people, but since when has that been an acceptable reason to kill yourself? He left behind a family...I'm sorry, but I will always consider suicide a selfish act.

Brain damage isn't an acceptable reason for suicide, it's the cause of the suicide. CTE is a form of encephalopathy - a category of diseases that cause brain dysfunction. Although scientists are learning more about CTE every day, one of its primary characteristics is severe brain dysfunction. The brain just wastes away.

And while it's convenient to blame that on selfish behavior or a lack of personal will, it's a lazy explanation. What if the conversation was about Alzheimer's instead of CTE? Would you blame your grandparent for their selfishness or lack of will if their behavior changed dramatically? What if they suffered from hallucinations? What if they suffered from paranoia and barely recognized once familiar faces? What if they committed suicide, or died accidentally as a result of an Alzheimer's driven psychotic episode? I suspect you wouldn't blame your grandparent, you'd blame the disease. It should be no different here.

[Larkin Fan]

Brain damage isn't an acceptable reason for suicide, it's the cause of the suicide. CTE is a form of encephalopathy - a category of diseases that cause brain dysfunction. Although scientists are learning more about CTE every day, one of its primary characteristics is severe brain dysfunction. The brain just wastes away.

And while it's convenient to blame that on selfish behavior or a lack of personal will, it's a lazy explanation. What if the conversation was about Alzheimer's instead of CTE? Would you blame your grandparent for their selfishness or lack of will if their behavior changed dramatically? What if they suffered from hallucinations? What if they suffered from paranoia and barely recognized once familiar faces? What if they committed suicide, or died accidentally as a result of an Alzheimer's driven psychotic episode? I suspect you wouldn't blame your grandparent, you'd blame the disease. It should be no different here.

Dude, it's only brain damage. That's no excuse for anything.