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Thread: John Fay Abstains from HOF Voting to Avoid Casting Votes for Bonds and Clemens

  1. #61
    Beer is good!! George Anderson's Avatar
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    Re: John Fay Abstains from HOF Voting to Avoid Casting Votes for Bonds and Clemens

    There is a good chance Bonds and Clemens are going to be on the ballot again next year so does he do the same thing next year? Is Fay going to abstain as long as any rumored user is on the ballot?

    If that is the case he needs to be removed from voting.
    "Boys, I'm one of those umpires that misses 'em every once in a while so if it's close, you'd better hit it." Cal Hubbard

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  3. #62
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: John Fay Abstains from HOF Voting to Avoid Casting Votes for Bonds and Clemens

    Quote Originally Posted by George Anderson View Post
    There is a good chance Bonds and Clemens are going to be on the ballot again next year so does he do the same thing next year? Is Fay going to abstain as long as any rumored user is on the ballot?

    If that is the case he needs to be removed from voting.
    Well, Fay said this at the end of the article.

    My gut feeling is that Iím done as a voter. Maybe time will give me clarity on the issue, but, right now, Iíd rather not vote than send in a ballot I donít fully believe in.
    And removing him as a voter doesn't mean he's replaced by someone else. The writers still have to meet their own criteria. 10 years and maybe some more qualifications.
    Chapman to the rotation!!!! Do it already!!!!

  4. #63
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: John Fay Abstains from HOF Voting to Avoid Casting Votes for Bonds and Clemens

    Quote Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_ View Post
    Well, Fay said this at the end of the article.



    And removing him as a voter doesn't mean he's replaced by someone else. The writers still have to meet their own criteria. 10 years and maybe some more qualifications.
    The BBWAA's criteria is outdated so you're right in that until they change their criteria, it's unlikely he'll be replaced. They are still stuck in the "journalist-only" mode where they ignore people that make a living writing on the internet. That is to say that unless you work for a print medium, you're unlikely to get a sniff by the Baseball Writers.
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  5. #64
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: John Fay Abstains from HOF Voting to Avoid Casting Votes for Bonds and Clemens

    Quote Originally Posted by Gallen5862 View Post
    The thing about Pete Rose is that Pete Rose the player did not get caught doing something to tarnish his numbers. Pete Rose the player deserves a up or down vote on if his accomplishments deserve to be in the hall of fame. Pete Rose the manager violated the gambleing rules and was banned from baseball. Pete Rose the manager should not be put on the ballot for the manager side of the hall of fame, It was the manager that was banned from baseball not the player.
    You really ought to read his book if you think that Pete the player didn't bet. In the book he says the first time he admitted publicly to anyone other than the guys taking the bets, was the 1986 playoffs. Pete played in the 1986 season. Pete the player was betting on games. Pete was just a manager when he was caught. But Pete the player was doing it too and has eventually admitted to it.

  6. #65
    HS Athletic Director alexad's Avatar
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    If he is not going to vote someone else should for him. It is not a right but a privilege. Another reason why baseball writers should not be the ones voting. TV and radio broadcasters should be given the same opportunity.
    The Enquirer should FIRE him.

    I honesty believe he sent a bad message about the city of Cincinnati. There are those deserving to be in the Hall of Fame and not voting is a SISSY way out!!!
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  7. #66
    Tired of talk. Win! Joseph's Avatar
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    Re: John Fay Abstains from HOF Voting to Avoid Casting Votes for Bonds and Clemens

    It's a priviledge, but is it an obligation?

    I've got no problems with it. Probably better than turning in a blank ballot.

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  8. #67
    Member Wonderful Monds's Avatar
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    For all the Redszone hand wringing over this, the rest of the Internet seems to approve of such moves.
    http://m.deadspin.com/5972233/espn-w...teroid-problem
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  9. #68
    Member Jpup's Avatar
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    Re: John Fay Abstains from HOF Voting to Avoid Casting Votes for Bonds and Clemens

    There has been nothing linking Piazza, Biggio, McGriff, or Raines to PEDs. They should be in the HOF. Fay could have voted for those guys. If you can't vote, get out.
    "My mission is to be the ray of hope, the guy who stands out there on that beautiful field and owns up to his mistakes and lets people know it's never completely hopeless, no matter how bad it seems at the time. I have a platform and a message, and now I go to bed at night, sober and happy, praying I can be a good messenger." -Josh Hamilton

  10. #69
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: John Fay Abstains from HOF Voting to Avoid Casting Votes for Bonds and Clemens

    I see nothing wrong with what he did. He basically thinks Clemens and Bonds are deserving even with PED's, but he wants to send a message by not voting them in first ballot. Nor are the other guys on the list first ballot guys. So Fay isn't voting.

    No problem whatsoever with that.

    Most of the complaining is simply that alot of posters simply don't like Fay.
    Last edited by Vottomatic; 01-01-2013 at 09:09 AM.
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  11. #70
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: John Fay Abstains from HOF Voting to Avoid Casting Votes for Bonds and Clemens

    Actually what Fay did was yell, "get off of my lawn!" and then he went inside to read old books about the good ole days when things were simple and baseball was pure.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  12. #71
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: John Fay Abstains from HOF Voting to Avoid Casting Votes for Bonds and Clemens

    Quote Originally Posted by Jpup View Post
    There has been nothing linking Piazza, Biggio, McGriff, or Raines to PEDs. They should be in the HOF. Fay could have voted for those guys. If you can't vote, get out.
    So what should he have done about the guys who DO have questions about PED's? He's clearly unsure about what to do with them. If he votes no on them and it turns out they should be in, he's hurting their chances. If he votes yes on them and it turns out they should NOT be in, he's helping them get in. I understand wanting to place votes for the other guys, but you can't vote for some players and abstain from the rest. You must select yea or nay for each. By submitting a blank ballot, he's not helping anyone only HURTING everyone. By not submitting one at all, he's not helping or hurting anyone.

    And due to his conflict, he's seriously considering not voting at all anymore.

    Personally, it seems like he's doing exactly what he SHOULD do. If he feels unqualified to make the decision...he shouldn't attempt to do so and hurt other deserving players chances. On the flip side, the players who are not linked to PED's shouldn't have their chances enhanced just because they aren't linked. Their chances should be only based on their individual merits and accomplishments, not a lack of faults. (clearly just my opinion)
    Chapman to the rotation!!!! Do it already!!!!

  13. #72
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: John Fay Abstains from HOF Voting to Avoid Casting Votes for Bonds and Clemens

    Quote Originally Posted by Jpup View Post
    There has been nothing linking Piazza, Biggio, McGriff, or Raines to PEDs. They should be in the HOF. Fay could have voted for those guys. If you can't vote, get out.
    I wouldn't say nothing. Piazza and Biggio have had their share of smoke. And it pains me to say this, but McGriff's late career renaissance after joining a team full of questionable suspects gives me some doubt as well.

  14. #73
    Oy Vey! Red in Chicago's Avatar
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    Re: John Fay Abstains from HOF Voting to Avoid Casting Votes for Bonds and Clemens

    Quote Originally Posted by Jpup View Post
    There has been nothing linking Piazza, Biggio, McGriff, or Raines to PEDs. They should be in the HOF. Fay could have voted for those guys. If you can't vote, get out.
    Raines may not have PEDS going against him, but he did have a slight problem with keeping coke in his pocket while playing ball. I'm guessing that's at least part of the problem some voters have with him.

  15. #74
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: John Fay Abstains from HOF Voting to Avoid Casting Votes for Bonds and Clemens

    Raisor's new rule for Hall of Fame consideration: if you aren't good enough to get in on your first try, you aren t a Hall of Famer.

    If you are a voter, and you think a player is a Hall of Famer, vote him in, don't make his wait out of some kind of caste system.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  16. #75
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    Re: John Fay Abstains from HOF Voting to Avoid Casting Votes for Bonds and Clemens

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    I wouldn't say nothing. Piazza and Biggio have had their share of smoke. And it pains me to say this, but McGriff's late career renaissance after joining a team full of questionable suspects gives me some doubt as well.
    This is exactly why Fay did the correct thing.

    What is he supposed to do with "smoke" providing speculation or innuendo that somebody used PEDs?

    Is Fay supposed to be the judge and jury as to whether somebody used PEDs based on public speculation?

    Fay is a baseball writer. He has expertise in baseball performance. He is not an expert on PED use. He is not a judge and jury as to whether each candidate used. He has no way of evaluating how much PEDs influenced a particular player's performance.

    I don't know how any individual sportswriter can deal with all these issues fairly. At minimum, the Hall must set out clear guidelines concerning PEDs and how they should be considered (or not considered) in the voting process.


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