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Thread: John Fay Abstains from HOF Voting to Avoid Casting Votes for Bonds and Clemens

  1. #16
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: John Fay Abstains from HOF Voting to Avoid Casting Votes for Bonds and Clemens

    Seems like by abstaining, Fay is voting no.

    Honestly, the HOF is just not worth getting upset over. So many heated internet discussions over a glorified tourist trap. Plenty of people in the HOF that don't really deserve to be there. A few guys were omitted that probably should be in.
    Not worth getting excited about.. no vote is going to change my memories of my favorite players.. I really don't care about the HOF.. I'm sure it's a nice place to visit, but I'd rather do other stuff with my vacation.
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  3. #17
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: John Fay Abstains from HOF Voting to Avoid Casting Votes for Bonds and Clemens

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    Seems like by abstaining, Fay is voting no.

    Honestly, the HOF is just not worth getting upset over. So many heated internet discussions over a glorified tourist trap. Plenty of people in the HOF that don't really deserve to be there. A few guys were omitted that probably should be in.
    Not worth getting excited about.. no vote is going to change my memories of my favorite players.. I really don't care about the HOF.. I'm sure it's a nice place to visit, but I'd rather do other stuff with my vacation.
    Abstaining isn't the same as a no vote. A no vote means three other guys need to vote yes to maintain a 75% of the ballot pace. Abstaining has no impact.
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  4. #18
    Haunted by walks
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    Re: John Fay Abstains from HOF Voting to Avoid Casting Votes for Bonds and Clemens

    Maybe we should just let Bill James vote.

  5. #19
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: John Fay Abstains from HOF Voting to Avoid Casting Votes for Bonds and Clemens

    I know people don't like Fay and all, but this is a silly thing to criticize him for. He's going with his convictions. I wish more voters would do the same one way or another.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  6. #20
    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: John Fay Abstains from HOF Voting to Avoid Casting Votes for Bonds and Clemens

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    I know people don't like Fay and all, but this is a silly thing to criticize him for. He's going with his convictions. I wish more voters would do the same one way or another.
    By actually voting, I would say they are following their convictions one way or another.
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

  7. #21
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    Re: John Fay Abstains from HOF Voting to Avoid Casting Votes for Bonds and Clemens

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
    By actually voting, I would say they are following their convictions one way or another.
    If someone has clear information that someone used or didn't use steroids, then I would agree, it's a matter of conviction.

    But the problem now is that there is so much speculation about players, it's not a matter of conviction. It's a matter of guesswork.

    There is much public info about Bonds and Clemens and I guess voters can reach their conclusions about them, either way.
    But so many other former players are being labeled based on speculation, without any real information, that the process seems completely messed up.

    The Hall of Fame should propound guidelines making clear how steroid use should be considered. The guidelines should specifically address situations where the notion of steroid use is speculative, without clear information. Then people would be better equipped to vote.
    Last edited by Kc61; 12-31-2012 at 01:33 PM.

  8. #22
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: John Fay Abstains from HOF Voting to Avoid Casting Votes for Bonds and Clemens

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    I know people don't like Fay and all, but this is a silly thing to criticize him for. He's going with his convictions. I wish more voters would do the same one way or another.
    I'm just laughing at him for his "I don't know what to do" routine. While it may be honest, I don't think it portrays convictions.

  9. #23
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    Re: John Fay Abstains from HOF Voting to Avoid Casting Votes for Bonds and Clemens

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    I'm just laughing at him for his "I don't know what to do" routine. While it may be honest, I don't think it portrays convictions.
    It isn't like he hasn't had several years to sort it out and make a well reasoned decision. Oh wait, I've read his stuff....well reasoned is an unrealistic expectation. I've read hometown high school sportswriters that have more insight and acumen to write a game story and a beat article than he does.
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  10. #24
    Danger is my business! oneupper's Avatar
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    Re: John Fay Abstains from HOF Voting to Avoid Casting Votes for Bonds and Clemens

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    If someone has clear information that someone used or didn't use steroids, then I would agree, it's a matter of conviction.

    But the problem now is that there is so much speculation about players, it's not a matter of conviction. It's a matter of guesswork.

    There is much public info about Bonds and Clemens and I guess voters can reach their conclusions about them, either way.
    But so many other former players are being labeled based on speculation, without any real information, that the process seems completely messed up.

    The Hall of Fame should propound guidelines making clear how steroid use should be considered. The guidelines should specifically address situations where the notion of steroid use is speculative, without clear information. Then people would be better equipped to vote.
    Clemens and Bonds used. FACT. Doubting that is being delusional and/or a conspiracy theorist.
    It's a matter of how voters decide to view that fact. I think most voters, like most posters here, have a clear opinion on the issue (one way or another). I don't see why Fay can't have one also, since he should be as well informed as most of us.
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    Member 757690's Avatar
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    Re: John Fay Abstains from HOF Voting to Avoid Casting Votes for Bonds and Clemens

    Quote Originally Posted by oneupper View Post
    Clemens and Bonds used. FACT. Doubting that is being delusional and/or a conspiracy theorist.
    It's a matter of how voters decide to view that fact. I think most voters, like most posters here, have a clear opinion on the issue (one way or another). I don't see why Fay can't have one also, since he should be as well informed as most of us.
    Exactly.

    We know that many players did use, and that that usage effected their play and production. Just because there are players who may have used that we don't know about or prove, doesn't mean that we can't act on those that we know did use.

    There are plenty of people who are guilty of murder who we can't prove are guilty and who we can't put into jail. Does that mean we shouldn't put into jail those that we can prove are murderers?
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  12. #26
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: John Fay Abstains from HOF Voting to Avoid Casting Votes for Bonds and Clemens

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Abstaining isn't the same as a no vote. A no vote means three other guys need to vote yes to maintain a 75% of the ballot pace. Abstaining has no impact.
    I believe it is 75% of ballots cast, not ballots mailed.

  13. #27
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: John Fay Abstains from HOF Voting to Avoid Casting Votes for Bonds and Clemens

    Quote Originally Posted by oneupper View Post
    Clemens and Bonds used. FACT. Doubting that is being delusional and/or a conspiracy theorist.
    It's a matter of how voters decide to view that fact. I think most voters, like most posters here, have a clear opinion on the issue (one way or another). I don't see why Fay can't have one also, since he should be as well informed as most of us.
    It might be different when your opinion actually means something.

  14. #28
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: John Fay Abstains from HOF Voting to Avoid Casting Votes for Bonds and Clemens

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Not really fair to a guy like Dale Murphy who is on the ballot for the last time.

    I will say that abstaining is better than turning in a blank ballot.
    Fair point...but then again, if it takes someone a dozen times in order to get in...are they REALLY Hall of Fame material? If he wasn't the first 10 times he was on the ballot...what makes him have the "right stuff" his final time? I'm not saying he's not worthy, my comment isn't about Dale in particular. Just a general comment about putting guys in at the last possible moment. I get it that not everybody is a first ballot nominee. Some guys will get bumped a year or two because some slam-dunk guy shows up on the ballot for the first time. But after 8 or 10 tries, if you're not in yet...you probably SHOULDN'T be in.
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    Re: John Fay Abstains from HOF Voting to Avoid Casting Votes for Bonds and Clemens

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    I know people don't like Fay and all, but this is a silly thing to criticize him for. He's going with his convictions. I wish more voters would do the same one way or another.
    He's not actually going with his convictions at all.

    If he was going with his convictions, he'd have voted for them to be in or not.
    Last edited by Tadasimha; 12-31-2012 at 02:17 PM.
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  16. #30
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: John Fay Abstains from HOF Voting to Avoid Casting Votes for Bonds and Clemens

    A Hall of Fame that ignore the most dominating position player and the the most dominating pitcher of an era is silly. Eliminating such players is an effort to whitewash the very fabric of the game and once the HOF adopts that as acceptable behavior, it ceases to have relevance and becomes nothing more than a great collection of memorabilia.
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