If only...

[757690]

I wish Marge Schott had sold her share of the club to another ownership group, instead of handing it over to minority owner Carl Lindner. Lindner's penny-pinching throughout the 00s was worse than having an owner less committed to Cincinnati, rattling his saber about moving from Cincinnati. If she had done it 5 years sooner, the Reds might have gotten a better stadium than the Bengals.

Not sure it was her choice. Someone with a better memory, please fill me in. I always thought that John Allen being moved into a position of more power was connected to it. I do agree it was the worst Reds move in my lifetime.

[WrongVerb]

A year or so ago the Hardball Times had a series on the 1960s Reds and what could have been had they NOT made a number of bad trades and moves. Keeping Frank Robinson is the obvious move, but the 1960s Reds at one time had Mike Cuellar, Claude Osteen, and Cesar Tovar among others. IIRC the articles concluded that had the Reds simply kept some of the players they at one time had, they would have added to their 1961 pennant additional NL titles in 1964, 1966, and 1969, and possibly in 1962 and 1965. They would have begun the 1970s, the decade of the Big Red Machine, with all the key players of that powerhouse, but with Robinson, Cuellar, Osteen, Tovar, Leo Cardenas, et al, added to the mix, for a really, really BIG Red Machine.

Hal McRae was originally drafted and brought to the majors by the Reds.

[chicoruiz]

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedsBaron
A year or so ago the Hardball Times had a series on the 1960s Reds and what could have been had they NOT made a number of bad trades and moves. Keeping Frank Robinson is the obvious move, but the 1960s Reds at one time had Mike Cuellar, Claude Osteen, and Cesar Tovar among others. IIRC the articles concluded that had the Reds simply kept some of the players they at one time had, they would have added to their 1961 pennant additional NL titles in 1964, 1966, and 1969, and possibly in 1962 and 1965. They would have begun the 1970s, the decade of the Big Red Machine, with all the key players of that powerhouse, but with Robinson, Cuellar, Osteen, Tovar, Leo Cardenas, et al, added to the mix, for a really, really BIG Red Machine.

Hal McRae was originally drafted and brought to the majors by the Reds.

You can throw Curt Flood into that player pool as well...

[westofyou]

Hal McRae was originally drafted and brought to the majors by the Reds.

I believe he also tweaked his arm and the Reds noted that and shuttled him to the AL to be a DH

Scheinblum was a dud

[PuffyPig]

Around 1974 the Reds and Royals were supposedly working on a trade of Tony Perez for George Brett. I love Tony but having Brett in a Reds uniform would have been nice.

IIRC, the Reds made the offer, the Royals turned them down.

[RollyInRaleigh]

Scheinblum was a dud

So was Roger Nelson.

[Benihana]

Weren't there some discussions about a John Roper-for-Bobby Bonilla trade back when Roper was a big pitching prospect?

[Roy Tucker]

Reds had Juan Pizzaro for a day back in the early 60's. He had some nice years with the Pale Hose.

[gilpdawg]

Yep.

The Reds offered Kurt Stillwell and Kal Daniels. The Pirates wanted Larkin and Daniels. When the Reds passed, Sid Thift, the Pirates GM, took the Giants offer of their top prospect, a pitcher named Jeff Robinson, who was basically a flop. Thrift would have been better off taking Stillwell and Daniels.

They asked for Larkin? Never knew that. I was only 9 at the time. Judging from what the Giants gave up I was thinking something like Scudder and another prospect.

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[MikeS21]

I wish Marge Schott had sold her share of the club to another ownership group, instead of handing it over to minority owner Carl Lindner. Lindner's penny-pinching throughout the 00s was worse than having an owner less committed to Cincinnati, rattling his saber about moving from Cincinnati. If she had done it 5 years sooner, the Reds might have gotten a better stadium than the Bengals.

Back up the truck a minute ... Lindner spent money on Griffey and Larkin and others. You may not agree HOW Lindner spent his money, but I cannot accuse him of pinching pennies. He had a LOT of money tied up and sitting on the DL. It is true that he didn't throw money away like most baseball owners do, but he didn't get to be a billionaire by throwing away money.

[PuffyPig]

A year or so ago the Hardball Times had a series on the 1960s Reds and what could have been had they NOT made a number of bad trades and moves. Keeping Frank Robinson is the obvious move, but the 1960s Reds at one time had Mike Cuellar, Claude Osteen, and Cesar Tovar among others. IIRC the articles concluded that had the Reds simply kept some of the players they at one time had, they would have added to their 1961 pennant additional NL titles in 1964, 1966, and 1969, and possibly in 1962 and 1965. They would have begun the 1970s, the decade of the Big Red Machine, with all the key players of that powerhouse, but with Robinson, Cuellar, Osteen, Tovar, Leo Cardenas, et al, added to the mix, for a really, really BIG Red Machine.

Of course earlier success would have meant different and lesser draft picks. Who knows if the Reds would have drafted Johnny Bench. Or traded for Morgan.

[mth123]

You can throw Curt Flood into that player pool as well...

... Tommy Harper and the immortal Art Shamsky.

[HokieRed]

I believe he also tweaked his arm and the Reds noted that and shuttled him to the AL to be a DH

Scheinblum was a dud

McRae had a serious, multiple break leg injury that the Reds feared would cost him his speed, as he had been really fast in the minors. It did cost him a lot of his speed, but as we all know he still had a terrific career.

[Strikes Out Looking]

Bobby Tolan wouldn't have played basketball in the offseason...

Dick Wagner wouldn't have been promoted...

Leatherpants had taken ADHD medicine... or gone to a therapist for his 5-tool player addiction...

[Unassisted]

Back up the truck a minute ... Lindner spent money on Griffey and Larkin and others. You may not agree HOW Lindner spent his money, but I cannot accuse him of pinching pennies. He had a LOT of money tied up and sitting on the DL. It is true that he didn't throw money away like most baseball owners do, but he didn't get to be a billionaire by throwing away money.

So brave.

I think you're going to have trouble finding a handful of RedsZoners who will support the payroll strategies of the Lindner regime. I know when he passed, that much was written about how he was a fine patron of the arts and other local causes, so I wouldn't presume to question his life's work. What I do question were his priorities as the chief financial decisionmaker for my favorite team. Playing not to lose (money) is not the same as playing to win (games).

Since the thread is about "what if" scenarios, my choice is to ponder the difference if he'd never been put in charge in the first place. It matters more than any player transaction that occurred during that time - including the deals that led to a high percentage of the payroll being on the DL for hundreds of games.