"Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.
The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. It has been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt and erased again. But baseball has marked the time. -- Terrance Mann (Field of Dreams)
You can throw Curt Flood into that player pool as well...Quote:
Originally Posted by RedsBaron
A year or so ago the Hardball Times had a series on the 1960s Reds and what could have been had they NOT made a number of bad trades and moves. Keeping Frank Robinson is the obvious move, but the 1960s Reds at one time had Mike Cuellar, Claude Osteen, and Cesar Tovar among others. IIRC the articles concluded that had the Reds simply kept some of the players they at one time had, they would have added to their 1961 pennant additional NL titles in 1964, 1966, and 1969, and possibly in 1962 and 1965. They would have begun the 1970s, the decade of the Big Red Machine, with all the key players of that powerhouse, but with Robinson, Cuellar, Osteen, Tovar, Leo Cardenas, et al, added to the mix, for a really, really BIG Red Machine.
Hal McRae was originally drafted and brought to the majors by the Reds.
"In baseball, you don't know nothin'"...Yogi Berra
Weren't there some discussions about a John Roper-for-Bobby Bonilla trade back when Roper was a big pitching prospect?
Reds had Juan Pizzaro for a day back in the early 60's. He had some nice years with the Pale Hose.
Opinions are like belly buttons. Everybody has one, and they don't want someone else's shoved into their face.
Bobby Tolan wouldn't have played basketball in the offseason...
Dick Wagner wouldn't have been promoted...
Leatherpants had taken ADHD medicine... or gone to a therapist for his 5-tool player addiction...
I'm going to miss Johnny Beisbol
I think you're going to have trouble finding a handful of RedsZoners who will support the payroll strategies of the Lindner regime. I know when he passed, that much was written about how he was a fine patron of the arts and other local causes, so I wouldn't presume to question his life's work. What I do question were his priorities as the chief financial decisionmaker for my favorite team. Playing not to lose (money) is not the same as playing to win (games).
Since the thread is about "what if" scenarios, my choice is to ponder the difference if he'd never been put in charge in the first place. It matters more than any player transaction that occurred during that time - including the deals that led to a high percentage of the payroll being on the DL for hundreds of games.