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Thread: Pirates DFA Zach Stewart

  1. #151
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Pirates DFA Zach Stewart

    Quote Originally Posted by redsof72 View Post
    Looked it up. Sickels actually wrote that on December 6, 2008, when Stewart had two months of pro experience. So it did not factor in ANY of what Stewart did in 2009.

    It is pretty well documented that the Reds offered Alonso in this deal but Toronto insisted on Stewart. If the Reds felt that Alonso was the better prospect (and Toronto did as well), that would be a rather odd way to go about it.
    Ok, I know you aren't responding to me, but I make a simliar point.
    You say the B- is based on only 2 months experience, but then another 1/2 season should jack him up to an A+, or best prospect in the system? That doesn't seem right either.

    He was definitley not the top prospect in the Reds system? Was he the top pitching prospect, maybe.. but that's faint praise when the competition is Darryl Thompson and Lotzar. That's like saying Mo Stanford and Acevado were once the Reds' top pitching prospects. That is a true statement, but it really doesn't mean much due to the dearth of pitching in the minors when they were ranked.

    So.. none of the experts thought much of Stewart before the 2009 season. The Reds didn't see him as a starter (since he was moved to the AAA pen). The Reds really didn't flinch at trading him.. And now we have the benefit of hindsight to see that he flopped so far. All the evidence seems to point to Stewart being vastly overrated on this board.
    Stewart put together a nice first half in 2009.. but look at the IP.. 42 IP in A, 37 IP in AA, and 12 IP in AAA.. Seems like it was screaming small sample size.
    After he was traded, his minor league numbers regressed.
    Looks like Walt timed it perfectly.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

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  3. #152
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    Re: Pirates DFA Zach Stewart

    Quote Originally Posted by redsof72 View Post
    Ok, ok. I am not sure how much more you think he needed to do that year to qualify for the term "dominant." In his first full year of pro ball, he started out in Sarasota in Single-A. He passed through Double-A and was in Triple-A before the end of June. In Double-A and Triple-A combined: 49.1 IP, 7 ER (1.28 ERA). He was doing this, not with fringy stuff, but with a fastball that was 93-94 and a hard slider that, regardless of the level, minor leaguer hitters could not do anything with.

    Give me a list of Reds minor league pitchers who have moved through three levels in their first full season of pro ball, put up a 1.28 ERA at Double-A/Triple-A, and did it with power stuff?
    He struck out less than a batter an inning and gave up as many hits as innings.

    That can never be dominant regardless of the ERA.

  4. #153
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Pirates DFA Zach Stewart

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    The past history Of Reds Minor Leaguers is not relevant to me.
    Gary Redus had the bestest year in the Reds ML one year and well....

  5. #154
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: Pirates DFA Zach Stewart

    For the record, I completely understand someone thinking the Reds gave up a bit much for Rolen. But the lengths some go to try to claim that this was a boneheaded move by Jocketty is absolutely incredible to me.

  6. #155
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Pirates DFA Zach Stewart

    Two of the more controversial deals in the past few years have involved Cincy losing Stewart, Wood, Sappelt and Torreyes for Rolen and Marshall. Think about what those trades have done at the major league level for Cincy.

  7. #156
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    Re: Pirates DFA Zach Stewart

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Gary Redus had the bestest year in the Reds ML one year and well....
    Don't even joke about that.

    I honestly thought Redus was going to be the Reds answer to Rickey Henderson, before I even knew who Rickey Henderson was. His Billings season was one for the ages, and his season with Indianapolis was pretty damn spectacular as well. Him and Paul Householder both flopping at the same time was devastating to this (at the time) young Reds fan.

  8. #157
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    Re: Pirates DFA Zach Stewart

    Redus wasn't a flop-- he was a career 107 OPS+, but, yeah, he was a disappointment.

    That comes from prospects playing too old at their respective levels.

    Householder, otoh, can't be viewed as anything other than a flop.
    Last edited by Scrap Irony; 01-23-2013 at 09:51 AM.
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  9. #158
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Pirates DFA Zach Stewart

    Prior to 2010 Sickels moved Stewart up to a B+ and said "could be a number two starter or closer, only role is unclear." Sickels listed him the #17 overall pitching prospect in MLB, right between Mike Montgomery and Kyle Drabek, both of whom have also turned out to be severe disappointments. To be fair, roughly 80% of his Top 50 list has either flopped or is still kicking around in the minors. So Stewart's got plenty of company in terms of arms who haven't lived up to the hype.

    BA initially listed Stewart as the Blue Jays' top prospect after 2009, though it moved him down to 4th when the Jays traded for Brett Wallace, Drabek and Travis D'Arnaud during the winter. Ultimately Stewart did not make BA's top 100, which clearly demonstrates that BA did not consider him to be all that compelling a prospect (the Reds had Chapman, Frazier, Alonso and Leake on that list). So BA looks like it had it right that he was a so-so prospect.

    I've got no problem with the notion of trying him as a reliever in AAA, but Jocketty cashed him in at the exact right time and there clearly was some widespread skepticism about whether he could become a quality major leaguer.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

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  10. #159
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Pirates DFA Zach Stewart

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Prior to 2010 Sickels moved Stewart up to a B+ and said "could be a number two starter or closer, only role is unclear." Sickels listed him the #17 overall pitching prospect in MLB, right between Mike Montgomery and Kyle Drabek, both of whom have also turned out to be severe disappointments. To be fair, roughly 80% of his Top 50 list has either flopped or is still kicking around in the minors. So Stewart's got plenty of company in terms of arms who haven't lived up to the hype.

    BA initially listed Stewart as the Blue Jays' top prospect after 2009, though it moved him down to 4th when the Jays traded for Brett Wallace, Drabek and Travis D'Arnaud during the winter. Ultimately Stewart did not make BA's top 100, which clearly demonstrates that BA did not consider him to be all that compelling a prospect (the Reds had Chapman, Frazier, Alonso and Leake on that list). So BA looks like it had it right that he was a so-so prospect.

    I've got no problem with the notion of trying him as a reliever in AAA, but Jocketty cashed him in at the exact right time and there clearly was some widespread skepticism about whether he could become a quality major leaguer.
    This is precisely Jocketty's MO. Go ahead and deal that prospect from what some may consider 75 cents (or less) on the dollar knowing that other people are often over-estimating the probability that the prospect will reach/exceed his potential.

    Or put differently, getting 75% of a prospect's publicly perceived value converted into real production at the major league level is more useful to the team than getting 100% of that prospect's actual value, which may or may not (likely not) include significant contribution at the major league level.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  11. #160
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Pirates DFA Zach Stewart

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    This is precisely Jocketty's MO. Go ahead and deal that prospect from what some may consider 75 cents (or less) on the dollar knowing that other people are often over-estimating the probability that the prospect will reach/exceed his potential.

    Or put differently, getting 75% of a prospect's publicly perceived value converted into real production at the major league level is more useful to the team than getting 100% of that prospect's actual value, which may or may not (likely not) include significant contribution at the major league level.
    Yep, see: Smith, Bud. Zach Stewart wasn't the first "can't miss" arm that Walt dealt to get Scott Rolen.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  12. #161
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Pirates DFA Zach Stewart

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    I've got no problem with the notion of trying him as a reliever in AAA, but Jocketty cashed him in at the exact right time and there clearly was some widespread skepticism about whether he could become a quality major leaguer.
    Yeah, but imagine the uproar around here if the Reds traded him again.
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  13. #162
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    Re: Pirates DFA Zach Stewart

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Yep, see: Smith, Bud. Zach Stewart wasn't the first "can't miss" arm that Walt dealt to get Scott Rolen.
    17-2 - 2.26 1.074 WHIP, 7.5K/9, 3.24 K to BB ratio.

    Bud Smith was a stud.

    In 2000.

    Now he's 33, retired with 27 games appeared in... One appearance for each day that Crash Davis experienced in the "Show".

  14. #163
    All Fired Up Revering4Blue's Avatar
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    Re: Pirates DFA Zach Stewart

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Yep, see: Smith, Bud. Zach Stewart wasn't the first "can't miss" arm that Walt dealt to get Scott Rolen.
    Not to pick nits, but injuries were largely responsible for the fact that Smith never threw a pitch as a Phillie. In fact, Smith was injured as he was dealt to Philly.

    http://www.foxsportsmidwest.com/07/2...blockID=280107

    That stated, I don't disagree at all with your point, or RedsManRick's.
    "I have just been more than a little suspect of all the trades since the Willy (Scott Williamson) cash grab. That one left such a bad taste in my mouth that even a 1985 Dom Pérignon couldn't cleanse it." -- Creek14

  15. #164
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    Re: Pirates DFA Zach Stewart

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Gary Redus had the bestest year in the Reds ML one year and well....
    a 13 year career ain't nothing to sneeze at. He wasn't great. but he was ok enough to keep playing.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  16. #165
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    Re: Pirates DFA Zach Stewart

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    a 13 year career ain't nothing to sneeze at. He wasn't great. but he was ok enough to keep playing.
    He was a capable role player, he attained the highest honor in the pension chase, he however was not able to climb as high as .462/.559/.787 again.

    Because ML ball and MLB is a world apart


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