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Thread: Reds, Logan Ondrusek Agree To Deal

  1. #16
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Reds, Logan Ondrusek Agree To Deal

    Joy. Guaranteed money for a right handed middle reliever that walks a bunch of guys and doesn't strike guys out. Those guys are hard to come by.

    The money basically doesn't matter, but why give guaranteed money to a guy who is more or less fungible?
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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  3. #17
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: Reds, Logan Ondrusek Agree To Deal

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    I might be alone, but I don't mind this signing at all.

    I think we all agree it would be foolish to bank on Masset suddenly being healthy/effective after spending all last season on the shelf with the mystery ailment and having surgery.

    Simon and Arrendondo are not exactly locks to be good either. With Broxton moving to closer, the hope is that one of the three will be an effective RH bridge to the end of the pen.. Signing him to 2 years probably saves the Reds some money and avoids the animousity of arbitration.

    In reality, if you fill out the middle of the pen with minimum salary guys on one year contracts, you have a bad bullpen. We've had much worse in the middle of the pen than Logan, Imo.

    Sometimes 2 year deals for relievers work out well, sometimes they backfire. Logan has been pretty durable. I'm comfortable with the risk.
    This is where I am too. Right now, only Marshall, Broxton & LeCure are locks for this bullpen IMO. Every other spot is up for grabs. Should make for a really interesting spring training story to keep an eye on. Lots of solid competition for a small handful of slots.
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  4. #18
    Vampire Weekend @Bernie's camisadelgolf's Avatar
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    Re: Reds, Logan Ondrusek Agree To Deal

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    Joy. Guaranteed money for a right handed middle reliever that walks a bunch of guys and doesn't strike guys out. Those guys are hard to come by.

    The money basically doesn't matter, but why give guaranteed money to a guy who is more or less fungible?
    He has done everything the Reds have asked of him. I have a feeling it's more about rewarding his intangibles.

  5. #19
    Member Superdude's Avatar
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    Re: Reds, Logan Ondrusek Agree To Deal

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    The money basically doesn't matter, but why give guaranteed money to a guy who is more or less fungible?
    He's fungible, but it's essentially just adding one likely cheap year to the arbitration deal he would've gotten anyway. Not sure why they did it, but I'm assuming it's a fair price for a guy that's worth having around in some capacity.

  6. #20
    Member VR's Avatar
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    Re: Reds, Logan Ondrusek Agree To Deal

    He's had some extended periods with exceptional results as a middle reliever. A good and necessary inning eater during the season, wouldn't want to see him much in the post season though.
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  7. #21
    Charlie Brown All-Star IslandRed's Avatar
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    Re: Reds, Logan Ondrusek Agree To Deal

    It depends on what the actual dollars are, especially now that Ondrusek is in his arbitration phase. If it's a contract that will lock him into below-market money for 2014 if he has a solid 2013, that makes him pretty valuable, either to the Reds or as trade bait. That's not necessarily a bad hedge to make, so long as the total dollars at stake aren't preventing the team from doing other things.
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  8. #22
    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: Reds, Logan Ondrusek Agree To Deal

    I don't like it.
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

  9. #23
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Reds, Logan Ondrusek Agree To Deal

    Until this deal, I didn't even see Ondrusek making the team out of Spring Training. Assuming they are all healthy, I think the team's best possible bullpen combo would be Broxton, Marshall, Hoover, Cingrani, Arredondo, Lecure and Leake.

    I'd guess that Leake and Cingrani go to AAA to start with those spots going to Ondrusek and Simon and wonder if Hoover is left off the roster to accomodate Masset. If this season is about winning the whole shabang, I think Cingrani, Hoover and Leake give the team a better chance to win.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

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  10. #24
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: Reds, Logan Ondrusek Agree To Deal

    I don't get it.
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  11. #25
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Reds, Logan Ondrusek Agree To Deal

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    Joy. Guaranteed money for a right handed middle reliever that walks a bunch of guys and doesn't strike guys out. Those guys are hard to come by.

    The money basically doesn't matter, but why give guaranteed money to a guy who is more or less fungible?
    Which guy currently on the FA junkpile would you sign to replace Logan?
    We don't have Logan's salary details yet (I think) but considering it's his first year of arb, I doubt he's making much.
    Those are your parameters.. find me someone for about 1 million/year or less that's available right now and is better than Logan.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

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  12. #26
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Reds, Logan Ondrusek Agree To Deal

    Quote Originally Posted by mth123 View Post
    Until this deal, I didn't even see Ondrusek making the team out of Spring Training. Assuming they are all healthy, I think the team's best possible bullpen combo would be Broxton, Marshall, Hoover, Cingrani, Arredondo, Lecure and Leake.
    ok, so you cut/trade Masset, Logan, and Simon so you can have that bullpen on opening day.

    Problems with that scenerio:

    1. If you have a bullpen injury, no depth in the minors.
    2. No option to leave Cingrani in AAA to continue work as a starter while being the bullpen depth. Hurts the future potentially.. Plus you might end up wasting a pre-arb year by pitching him roughly 60 IP out the pen as the second lefty (If the Reds still believe he's a decent starter)
    3. Is Leake really that suited for the pen? Last time he was put there (after the shoplifting incident), he really did not thrive. Small sample size, but he's not exactly a power arm out of the pen either.

    Most teams have worse arms than Logan and Simon filling out the end of the BP.
    Overall, Logan is fine for a middle reliever. He has periods of dominance, despite the metrics.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  13. #27
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Reds, Logan Ondrusek Agree To Deal

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    Which guy currently on the FA junkpile would you sign to replace Logan?
    We don't have Logan's salary details yet (I think) but considering it's his first year of arb, I doubt he's making much.
    Those are your parameters.. find me someone for about 1 million/year or less that's available right now and is better than Logan.
    At this point, I'd guess you may find guys who have made a lot more than that in the past but are looking for work and may settle for that much. Some names on this year's list:

    Jon Rauch, Kyle Farnsworth, Juan Carlos Oviedo, K-Rod, Brian Wilson, Matt Capps, Brandon Lyon, Rafael Perez, Manny Parra, Pedro Feliciano, Matt Lindstrom ...

    There is a list like that every year at this time and while I have questions about Wilson, Capps and Lyon, I'd say the rest of the list would be an upgrade or at least a better fit.

    On the Reds, three of Hoover, Cingrani, Leake, Masset, Ondrusek, Arredondo, and Simon won't make the opening day roster without the Reds adding anyone else. I'd rank Ondrusek dead last on that list in terms of talent and future value. Hard to imagine he's not one of the bottom three.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  14. #28
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
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    Re: Reds, Logan Ondrusek Agree To Deal

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    ok, so you cut/trade Masset, Logan, and Simon so you can have that bullpen on opening day.

    Problems with that scenerio:

    1. If you have a bullpen injury, no depth in the minors.
    2. No option to leave Cingrani in AAA to continue work as a starter while being the bullpen depth. Hurts the future potentially.. Plus you might end up wasting a pre-arb year by pitching him roughly 60 IP out the pen as the second lefty (If the Reds still believe he's a decent starter)
    3. Is Leake really that suited for the pen? Last time he was put there (after the shoplifting incident), he really did not thrive. Small sample size, but he's not exactly a power arm out of the pen either.

    Most teams have worse arms than Logan and Simon filling out the end of the BP.
    Overall, Logan is fine for a middle reliever. He has periods of dominance, despite the metrics.
    I think the point is that Ondrusek is probably OK as an 11th or 12th man on the staff, but there are lots of guys available who would be as well. Last year the Reds found Simon for nothing and picked up Hoover in spring training. Why lock in 2 years with the guy unless he's signing for near minimum anyway?

    If the Reds had to cut Ondrusek loose, I'm confident the Reds could find some one comparable on a minor league deal who would provide the depth you're talking about. If he was a lefty, I might understand this one, but as a righty, he's pretty much an interchangeable part. Why lock in?

    That said, this isn't an awful move like dealing for Willy Taveras was. It just seems unnecessary. I doubt it causes any long term consequences, but I could see the team opting to keep Ondrusek over a better arm because of it.

    Cingrani's development as a a starter is secondary to winning in 2013. If Cingrani can upgrade one of the pen spots from interchangeable guy to nasty weapon in 2013, I'd do it and worry about his future as a a starter another time. He can get innings in wnter ball if need be.
    Last edited by mth123; 01-18-2013 at 02:01 AM.
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  15. #29
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    Re: Reds, Logan Ondrusek Agree To Deal

    It's likely more of getting cost security for a guy you likely aren't going to DFA anytime soon, than admitting he's an intrgral part of the bullpen going forward.

  16. #30
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: Reds, Logan Ondrusek Agree To Deal

    Even if Logan is average, I remember the days when the Reds didn't have average guys in the bullpen. So I'm fine with this deal.

    Reds have a lot of depth in all of their pitching ranks. If a deal to improve the team comes along, they are in good position to pull the string.
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