The 75 bullpen is a bit underrated. They got the job done most of the time but did without really being dominant. The 90 team had three relievers who could blow people away. The 75 one didn't really do that except for Eastwick. I kinda equate Borbon with Cordero. He would put a lot of people on base but could riggle out of the jam without any or much damage most of the time. He truly had a rubber arm also. It seemed like he could pitcher everyday and not lose anything off his pitches.
Reds Fan Since 1971
Pedro was great and good, not elite
Code:CAREER 1970-1977 GAMES STARTED <= 5 RSAA displayed only--not a sorting criteria INNINGS PITCHED >= 300 ERA DIFF PLAYER LEAGUE GS RSAA IP 1 Sparky Lyle 1.24 2.41 3.65 0 98 753.2 2 Gary Lavelle 1.19 2.50 3.69 0 49 327.2 3 Jim Brewer 1.13 2.54 3.67 0 43 447 4 Ramon Hernandez 0.89 2.72 3.61 0 35 370.2 5 Rawly Eastwick 0.88 2.80 3.68 1 31 312.1 6 Steve Mingori 0.82 2.81 3.63 1 52 468 7 Ken Sanders 0.76 2.76 3.52 0 39 505.1 8 Al Hrabosky 0.75 2.93 3.68 1 39 451.1 9 Dave Giusti 0.64 3.06 3.70 3 42 704 10 Charlie Hough 0.63 3.05 3.68 1 27 522.2 11 Bob Locker 0.56 2.96 3.52 0 24 377 12 Jack Aker 0.55 3.03 3.58 0 22 321 13 Pedro Borbon 0.54 3.11 3.64 4 40 776.2 14 Steve Foucault 0.53 3.21 3.74 0 26 457 15 Danny Frisella 0.42 3.20 3.62 2 22 481 16 Horacio Pina 0.40 3.14 3.55 0 7 352 17 Dave LaRoche 0.30 3.31 3.61 4 20 642 18 Randy Moffitt 0.29 3.35 3.64 1 27 537.2 19 Wayne Granger 0.23 3.33 3.56 0 9 451 20 Dave Tomlin 0.22 3.47 3.69 1 -4 347.1 21 Frank Linzy 0.18 3.44 3.62 1 6 311 22 Dale Murray 0.17 3.50 3.67 1 13 396.1 23 Tom Burgmeier 0.17 3.47 3.64 0 16 602 24 Elias Sosa 0.16 3.49 3.65 2 15 446 25 Tom Buskey 0.13 3.56 3.69 0 4 320.2 26 Jim Ray 0.10 3.57 3.67 3 1 414 27 Joe Hoerner -.01 3.66 3.65 0 4 305Code:ALL LEAGUES & TEAMS ALL YEARS ALL POSITIONS GAMES STARTED < 2 INNINGS PITCHED >= 120 GAMES >= 50 1 Pedro Borbon 1973-77 5 T2 Dick Radatz 1962-65 4 T2 Dan Quisenberry 1982-85 4 4 Rollie Fingers 1975-77 3 T5 Hoyt Wilhelm 1952-53 2 T5 Ron Perranoski 1963-64 2 T5 Hoyt Wilhelm 1964-65 2 T5 Lindy McDaniel 1965-66 2 T5 Wilbur Wood 1969-70 2 T5 John Hiller 1973-74 2 T5 Mike Marshall 1973-74 2 T5 Bill Campbell 1976-77 2 T5 Charlie Hough 1976-77 2 T5 Goose Gossage 1977-78 2 T5 Kent Tekulve 1978-79 2 T5 Enrique Romo 1979-80 2 T5 Aurelio Lopez 1979-80 2 T5 Mark Eichhorn 1986-87 2 T5 Jeff Robinson 1987-88 2
FWIW
The 75 BP was essentially 4 guys
Code:CINCINNATI REDS SEASON 1975 GAMES STARTED <= 5 RSAA displayed only--not a sorting criteria ERA DIFF PLAYER LEAGUE GS RSAA 1 Will McEnaney 1.16 2.47 3.63 0 13 2 Rawly Eastwick 1.03 2.60 3.63 0 11 3 Clay Carroll 1.01 2.63 3.63 2 12 4 Pedro Borbon 0.68 2.95 3.63 0 11
"Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."
Borbon would've had much better numbers had he not gotten pinch hit for by Manny Mota.
"MLB history" happened before the 70s, also. I think any attempt to rank "bullpens" and link to MLB history is a flawed principle from the outset. Bullpens evolved and that affects any type of ranking. You can only rank bullpens by era because bullpen usage had distinct characteristics in different periods.
For example, you would have the early years from 1880s through WWII. From WWII-through the 50s, the 60s, the 70s-mid 80s, mid 80s to early 90s, and mid 90s to current. Trying to rank a 70s bullpen with a current bullpen is a category error.
"Rounding 3rd and heading for home, good night everybody"
You mean like this:
Code:CINCINNATI REDS SEASON 1961 RSAA displayed only--not a sorting criteria GAMES STARTED <= 2 INNINGS PITCHED displayed only--not a sorting criteria ERA DIFF PLAYER LEAGUE RSAA GS IP 1 Bill Henry 1.82 2.21 4.03 11 0 53 2 Jim Brosnan 0.99 3.04 4.03 10 0 80 3 Howie Nunn 0.48 3.55 4.03 3 0 38 4 Sherman Jones -.39 4.42 4.03 -2 2 55 CINCINNATI REDS SEASON 1967 RSAA displayed only--not a sorting criteria GAMES STARTED <= 2 INNINGS PITCHED displayed only--not a sorting criteria ERA DIFF PLAYER LEAGUE RSAA GS IP 1 Ted Abernathy 2.10 1.27 3.38 28 0 106 2 Don Nottebart 1.44 1.94 3.38 15 0 79 3 Bob Lee -1.06 4.44 3.38 -4 1 50.2Groups back then tend to be 3 to 4 guys with the 4th being a dogCode:LOS ANGELES DODGERS SEASON 1966 RSAA displayed only--not a sorting criteria GAMES STARTED <= 2 INNINGS PITCHED displayed only--not a sorting criteria ERA DIFF PLAYER LEAGUE RSAA GS IP 1 Phil Regan 1.99 1.62 3.61 23 0 117 2 Bob Miller 0.82 2.79 3.61 5 0 84 3 Ron Perranoski 0.42 3.18 3.61 2 0 82
"Rounding 3rd and heading for home, good night everybody"
It is hard for me to manage the pre-70s teams. I have an itchy trigger finger with starters and it is hard to leave them in, just out of habit. The computer sticks with the starters more, good and bad, if you do not set up a "Super Hal" bullpen pecking order. If it is just the computer, it will always leave the starter in longer.
I still think Strat as played replays are a fun way to learn the history of the game. Coupled with the internet, I've come to appreciate that there are always a lot of good players out there who were not "names," but very good players in their day. Maybe sportswriters could get up to speed on their HOF voting privilege if they played Strat
Last edited by traderumor; 01-22-2013 at 03:03 PM.
"Rounding 3rd and heading for home, good night everybody"
I remembered Scudder as the Sam Lecure of the early 90's. Very weak results if he went to the rotation, very impressive results if he had to come out of the pen.
I remember a puff piece discussing how he had pitched so well in relief that they refused to move him to the rotation even though he was likely next in line.
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