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Thread: Top 10 bullpens in MLB history

  1. #16
    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
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    Re: Top 10 bullpens in MLB history

    Quote Originally Posted by RANDY IN INDY View Post
    I'd say all those innings with that ERA made him pretty special.
    I agree.
    "Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."

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  3. #17
    Member cumberlandreds's Avatar
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    Re: Top 10 bullpens in MLB history

    The 75 bullpen is a bit underrated. They got the job done most of the time but did without really being dominant. The 90 team had three relievers who could blow people away. The 75 one didn't really do that except for Eastwick. I kinda equate Borbon with Cordero. He would put a lot of people on base but could riggle out of the jam without any or much damage most of the time. He truly had a rubber arm also. It seemed like he could pitcher everyday and not lose anything off his pitches.
    Reds Fan Since 1971

  4. #18
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Top 10 bullpens in MLB history

    Pedro was great and good, not elite

    Code:
    CAREER
    1970-1977
    
    GAMES STARTED <= 5
    RSAA displayed only--not a sorting criteria
    INNINGS PITCHED >= 300
    
    ERA                             DIFF   PLAYER   LEAGUE     GS      RSAA      IP     
    1    Sparky Lyle                1.24     2.41     3.65        0       98    753.2   
    2    Gary Lavelle               1.19     2.50     3.69        0       49    327.2   
    3    Jim Brewer                 1.13     2.54     3.67        0       43    447     
    4    Ramon Hernandez            0.89     2.72     3.61        0       35    370.2   
    5    Rawly Eastwick             0.88     2.80     3.68        1       31    312.1   
    6    Steve Mingori              0.82     2.81     3.63        1       52    468     
    7    Ken Sanders                0.76     2.76     3.52        0       39    505.1   
    8    Al Hrabosky                0.75     2.93     3.68        1       39    451.1   
    9    Dave Giusti                0.64     3.06     3.70        3       42    704     
    10   Charlie Hough              0.63     3.05     3.68        1       27    522.2   
    11   Bob Locker                 0.56     2.96     3.52        0       24    377     
    12   Jack Aker                  0.55     3.03     3.58        0       22    321     
    13   Pedro Borbon               0.54     3.11     3.64        4       40    776.2   
    14   Steve Foucault             0.53     3.21     3.74        0       26    457     
    15   Danny Frisella             0.42     3.20     3.62        2       22    481     
    16   Horacio Pina               0.40     3.14     3.55        0        7    352     
    17   Dave LaRoche               0.30     3.31     3.61        4       20    642     
    18   Randy Moffitt              0.29     3.35     3.64        1       27    537.2   
    19   Wayne Granger              0.23     3.33     3.56        0        9    451     
    20   Dave Tomlin                0.22     3.47     3.69        1       -4    347.1   
    21   Frank Linzy                0.18     3.44     3.62        1        6    311     
    22   Dale Murray                0.17     3.50     3.67        1       13    396.1   
    23   Tom Burgmeier              0.17     3.47     3.64        0       16    602     
    24   Elias Sosa                 0.16     3.49     3.65        2       15    446     
    25   Tom Buskey                 0.13     3.56     3.69        0        4    320.2   
    26   Jim Ray                    0.10     3.57     3.67        3        1    414     
    27   Joe Hoerner                -.01     3.66     3.65        0        4    305
    Code:
    ALL LEAGUES & TEAMS
    ALL YEARS
    ALL POSITIONS
    GAMES STARTED < 2
    INNINGS PITCHED >= 120
    GAMES >= 50
    
    
    1    Pedro Borbon             1973-77    5   
    T2   Dick Radatz              1962-65    4   
    T2   Dan Quisenberry          1982-85    4   
    4    Rollie Fingers           1975-77    3   
    T5   Hoyt Wilhelm             1952-53    2   
    T5   Ron Perranoski           1963-64    2   
    T5   Hoyt Wilhelm             1964-65    2   
    T5   Lindy McDaniel           1965-66    2   
    T5   Wilbur Wood              1969-70    2   
    T5   John Hiller              1973-74    2   
    T5   Mike Marshall            1973-74    2   
    T5   Bill Campbell            1976-77    2   
    T5   Charlie Hough            1976-77    2   
    T5   Goose Gossage            1977-78    2   
    T5   Kent Tekulve             1978-79    2   
    T5   Enrique Romo             1979-80    2   
    T5   Aurelio Lopez            1979-80    2   
    T5   Mark Eichhorn            1986-87    2   
    T5   Jeff Robinson            1987-88    2

  5. #19
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Top 10 bullpens in MLB history

    FWIW

    The 75 BP was essentially 4 guys

    Code:
    CINCINNATI REDS
    SEASON
    1975
    
    GAMES STARTED <= 5
    RSAA displayed only--not a sorting criteria
    
    ERA                             DIFF   PLAYER   LEAGUE     GS      RSAA    
    1    Will McEnaney              1.16     2.47     3.63        0       13   
    2    Rawly Eastwick             1.03     2.60     3.63        0       11   
    3    Clay Carroll               1.01     2.63     3.63        2       12   
    4    Pedro Borbon               0.68     2.95     3.63        0       11

  6. #20
    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
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    Re: Top 10 bullpens in MLB history

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Pedro was great and good, not elite

    Code:
    CAREER
    1970-1977
    
    GAMES STARTED <= 5
    RSAA displayed only--not a sorting criteria
    INNINGS PITCHED >= 300
    
    ERA                             DIFF   PLAYER   LEAGUE     GS      RSAA      IP     
    1    Sparky Lyle                1.24     2.41     3.65        0       98    753.2   
    2    Gary Lavelle               1.19     2.50     3.69        0       49    327.2   
    3    Jim Brewer                 1.13     2.54     3.67        0       43    447     
    4    Ramon Hernandez            0.89     2.72     3.61        0       35    370.2   
    5    Rawly Eastwick             0.88     2.80     3.68        1       31    312.1   
    6    Steve Mingori              0.82     2.81     3.63        1       52    468     
    7    Ken Sanders                0.76     2.76     3.52        0       39    505.1   
    8    Al Hrabosky                0.75     2.93     3.68        1       39    451.1   
    9    Dave Giusti                0.64     3.06     3.70        3       42    704     
    10   Charlie Hough              0.63     3.05     3.68        1       27    522.2   
    11   Bob Locker                 0.56     2.96     3.52        0       24    377     
    12   Jack Aker                  0.55     3.03     3.58        0       22    321     
    13   Pedro Borbon               0.54     3.11     3.64        4       40    776.2   
    14   Steve Foucault             0.53     3.21     3.74        0       26    457     
    15   Danny Frisella             0.42     3.20     3.62        2       22    481     
    16   Horacio Pina               0.40     3.14     3.55        0        7    352     
    17   Dave LaRoche               0.30     3.31     3.61        4       20    642     
    18   Randy Moffitt              0.29     3.35     3.64        1       27    537.2   
    19   Wayne Granger              0.23     3.33     3.56        0        9    451     
    20   Dave Tomlin                0.22     3.47     3.69        1       -4    347.1   
    21   Frank Linzy                0.18     3.44     3.62        1        6    311     
    22   Dale Murray                0.17     3.50     3.67        1       13    396.1   
    23   Tom Burgmeier              0.17     3.47     3.64        0       16    602     
    24   Elias Sosa                 0.16     3.49     3.65        2       15    446     
    25   Tom Buskey                 0.13     3.56     3.69        0        4    320.2   
    26   Jim Ray                    0.10     3.57     3.67        3        1    414     
    27   Joe Hoerner                -.01     3.66     3.65        0        4    305
    Code:
    ALL LEAGUES & TEAMS
    ALL YEARS
    ALL POSITIONS
    GAMES STARTED < 2
    INNINGS PITCHED >= 120
    GAMES >= 50
    
    
    1    Pedro Borbon             1973-77    5   
    T2   Dick Radatz              1962-65    4   
    T2   Dan Quisenberry          1982-85    4   
    4    Rollie Fingers           1975-77    3   
    T5   Hoyt Wilhelm             1952-53    2   
    T5   Ron Perranoski           1963-64    2   
    T5   Hoyt Wilhelm             1964-65    2   
    T5   Lindy McDaniel           1965-66    2   
    T5   Wilbur Wood              1969-70    2   
    T5   John Hiller              1973-74    2   
    T5   Mike Marshall            1973-74    2   
    T5   Bill Campbell            1976-77    2   
    T5   Charlie Hough            1976-77    2   
    T5   Goose Gossage            1977-78    2   
    T5   Kent Tekulve             1978-79    2   
    T5   Enrique Romo             1979-80    2   
    T5   Aurelio Lopez            1979-80    2   
    T5   Mark Eichhorn            1986-87    2   
    T5   Jeff Robinson            1987-88    2
    Borbon lead everyone on that list in innings pitched. He wasn't an elite pitcher but he was an elite innings eater which probably helped the other members of the staff remain effective.
    "Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."

  7. #21
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: Top 10 bullpens in MLB history

    Borbon would've had much better numbers had he not gotten pinch hit for by Manny Mota.
    2014 predictions:
    99-63 WS champs (Cards take 2nd WC, Mil 3rd, Pit 4th, Chi 5th)
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  8. #22
    Beer is good!! George Anderson's Avatar
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    Re: Top 10 bullpens in MLB history

    Quote Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_ View Post
    Borbon would've had much better numbers had he not gotten pinch hit for by Manny Mota.
    Roger

    "Boys, I'm one of those umpires that misses 'em every once in a while so if it's close, you'd better hit it." Cal Hubbard

  9. #23
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Top 10 bullpens in MLB history

    Quote Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_ View Post
    Borbon would've had much better numbers had he not gotten pinch hit for by Manny Mota.
    Can't win with 'em

    Can't win without 'em

  10. #24
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Top 10 bullpens in MLB history

    "MLB history" happened before the 70s, also. I think any attempt to rank "bullpens" and link to MLB history is a flawed principle from the outset. Bullpens evolved and that affects any type of ranking. You can only rank bullpens by era because bullpen usage had distinct characteristics in different periods.

    For example, you would have the early years from 1880s through WWII. From WWII-through the 50s, the 60s, the 70s-mid 80s, mid 80s to early 90s, and mid 90s to current. Trying to rank a 70s bullpen with a current bullpen is a category error.
    Can't win with 'em

    Can't win without 'em

  11. #25
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Top 10 bullpens in MLB history

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    "MLB history" happened before the 70s, also. I think any attempt to rank "bullpens" and link to MLB history is a flawed principle from the outset. Bullpens evolved and that affects any type of ranking. You can only rank bullpens by era because bullpen usage had distinct characteristics in different periods.

    For example, you would have the early years from 1880s through WWII. From WWII-through the 50s, the 60s, the 70s-mid 80s, mid 80s to early 90s, and mid 90s to current. Trying to rank a 70s bullpen with a current bullpen is a category error.
    You mean like this:

    Code:
    CINCINNATI REDS
    SEASON
    1961
    
    RSAA displayed only--not a sorting criteria
    GAMES STARTED <= 2
    INNINGS PITCHED displayed only--not a sorting criteria
    
    ERA                             DIFF   PLAYER   LEAGUE    RSAA      GS       IP     
    1    Bill Henry                 1.82     2.21     4.03       11        0     53     
    2    Jim Brosnan                0.99     3.04     4.03       10        0     80     
    3    Howie Nunn                 0.48     3.55     4.03        3        0     38     
    4    Sherman Jones              -.39     4.42     4.03       -2        2     55     
    
    CINCINNATI REDS
    SEASON
    1967
    
    RSAA displayed only--not a sorting criteria
    GAMES STARTED <= 2
    INNINGS PITCHED displayed only--not a sorting criteria
    
    ERA                             DIFF   PLAYER   LEAGUE    RSAA      GS       IP     
    1    Ted Abernathy              2.10     1.27     3.38       28        0    106     
    2    Don Nottebart              1.44     1.94     3.38       15        0     79     
    3    Bob Lee                   -1.06     4.44     3.38       -4        1     50.2
    Code:
    LOS ANGELES DODGERS
    SEASON
    1966
    
    RSAA displayed only--not a sorting criteria
    GAMES STARTED <= 2
    INNINGS PITCHED displayed only--not a sorting criteria
    
    ERA                             DIFF   PLAYER   LEAGUE    RSAA      GS       IP     
    1    Phil Regan                 1.99     1.62     3.61       23        0    117     
    2    Bob Miller                 0.82     2.79     3.61        5        0     84     
    3    Ron Perranoski             0.42     3.18     3.61        2        0     82
    Groups back then tend to be 3 to 4 guys with the 4th being a dog

  12. #26
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Top 10 bullpens in MLB history

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    You mean like this:

    Code:
    CINCINNATI REDS
    SEASON
    1961
    
    RSAA displayed only--not a sorting criteria
    GAMES STARTED <= 2
    INNINGS PITCHED displayed only--not a sorting criteria
    
    ERA                             DIFF   PLAYER   LEAGUE    RSAA      GS       IP     
    1    Bill Henry                 1.82     2.21     4.03       11        0     53     
    2    Jim Brosnan                0.99     3.04     4.03       10        0     80     
    3    Howie Nunn                 0.48     3.55     4.03        3        0     38     
    4    Sherman Jones              -.39     4.42     4.03       -2        2     55     
    
    CINCINNATI REDS
    SEASON
    1967
    
    RSAA displayed only--not a sorting criteria
    GAMES STARTED <= 2
    INNINGS PITCHED displayed only--not a sorting criteria
    
    ERA                             DIFF   PLAYER   LEAGUE    RSAA      GS       IP     
    1    Ted Abernathy              2.10     1.27     3.38       28        0    106     
    2    Don Nottebart              1.44     1.94     3.38       15        0     79     
    3    Bob Lee                   -1.06     4.44     3.38       -4        1     50.2
    Code:
    LOS ANGELES DODGERS
    SEASON
    1966
    
    RSAA displayed only--not a sorting criteria
    GAMES STARTED <= 2
    INNINGS PITCHED displayed only--not a sorting criteria
    
    ERA                             DIFF   PLAYER   LEAGUE    RSAA      GS       IP     
    1    Phil Regan                 1.99     1.62     3.61       23        0    117     
    2    Bob Miller                 0.82     2.79     3.61        5        0     84     
    3    Ron Perranoski             0.42     3.18     3.61        2        0     82
    Groups back then tend to be 3 to 4 guys with the 4th being a dog
    Yea, and that started in about the post WWII era and extended through the 60s. Then came Sparky and things started to morph into a more specialized bullpen and relievers were not just default failed starters.
    Can't win with 'em

    Can't win without 'em

  13. #27
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Top 10 bullpens in MLB history

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    Yea, and that started in about the post WWII era and extended through the 60s. Then came Sparky and things started to morph into a more specialized bullpen and relievers were not just default failed starters.
    You play a lot of Strat prior to divisional play, you must carry 9 guys tops on your staff, with most starters logging 8 innings a start correct?

    Do you tend to get top shelf BP performance from your squads while the computer sticks with the starters more?

  14. #28
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Top 10 bullpens in MLB history

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    You play a lot of Strat prior to divisional play, you must carry 9 guys tops on your staff, with most starters logging 8 innings a start correct?

    Do you tend to get top shelf BP performance from your squads while the computer sticks with the starters more?
    It is hard for me to manage the pre-70s teams. I have an itchy trigger finger with starters and it is hard to leave them in, just out of habit. The computer sticks with the starters more, good and bad, if you do not set up a "Super Hal" bullpen pecking order. If it is just the computer, it will always leave the starter in longer.

    I still think Strat as played replays are a fun way to learn the history of the game. Coupled with the internet, I've come to appreciate that there are always a lot of good players out there who were not "names," but very good players in their day. Maybe sportswriters could get up to speed on their HOF voting privilege if they played Strat
    Last edited by traderumor; 01-22-2013 at 03:03 PM.
    Can't win with 'em

    Can't win without 'em

  15. #29
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    Re: Top 10 bullpens in MLB history

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool View Post
    No love for Scott Scudder? The Scud Missile? Really?
    I remembered Scudder as the Sam Lecure of the early 90's. Very weak results if he went to the rotation, very impressive results if he had to come out of the pen.

    I remember a puff piece discussing how he had pitched so well in relief that they refused to move him to the rotation even though he was likely next in line.
    When people say that I donít know what Iím talking about when it comes to sports or writing, I think: Man, you should see me in the rest of my life.
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