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Thread: Theo Epstein is upset with the competitive draft

  1. #1
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    Theo Epstein is upset with the competitive draft

    http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/eye-on-...ce-draft-picks

    Says Cardinals don't need the extra "gift".

    He brings up a good point, but let's be honest, his Cubs don't deserve to pick so high every year either. Cardinals draw the 2nd most amount of attendance in the league, but the real money is in TV. So is it right that they determine this by media market size or should the criteria be changed? For example, should making the playoffs the year before take you out of the running even if your team meets the criteria?

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    Public Enemy #1 Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: Theo Epstein is upset with the competitive draft

    I liked what Billy Beane said this year about the draft in general as it is very relevant to the Cubs:

    “I ultimately think what replaces the draft should be based on revenue, and that you shouldn’t be rewarded for poor performance,” Beane said. “If you think about it, the draft is the only time that a team like Tampa, Pittsburgh, Kansas City, or us, the draft is the only time these teams have access to the really star-caliber players. Because the industry is much better now at selecting the star players. They come at the top of the draft. We win the division, but it would be nice to still be in the top 10, to draft where the Lincecums come, and the Poseys come.”
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

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    Daffy Duck RedTeamGo!'s Avatar
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    Re: Theo Epstein is upset with the competitive draft

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Servo View Post
    I liked what Billy Beane said this year about the draft in general as it is very relevant to the Cubs:
    I get what he is saying, but why would we want the best players going to the worst baseball markets? I personally would not want all of the best players in Tampa, Miami and KC.

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    Member 757690's Avatar
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    Re: Theo Epstein is upset with the competitive draft

    I posted about this in a different thread.

    I agree with Epstein. This lottery is a joke.

    First, why is is a lottery? Why not just give very deserving team an extra pick?

    Second, I think teams should be eligible base on two factors: market size, and attendance.

    Everyone thinks the big money is in TV deals, and it is... In the national TV deals. But that money does get distributed fairly, and that is one reason why there is so much parity right now.

    The local TV money actually isn't much compared to attendance. Assuming a team takes in $35 a person, a team with 2.5M fans would a take in around $85M. A team with 3M fans would take in $105M. Most teams make between $20M-$60M on their local media contracts each year. Now that should change in the upcoming years, if the Dodger deal has any impact on other teams' negotiations,, but as of right now that is the reality.

    The point is that if a team can draw well, they can compete. Extra local TV money will help them, but drawing fans to games helps,them just as much, if not more.

    As I stated in the other thread, I would give these teams an extra pick:

    Ray's
    A's
    Twins
    Reds
    Indians
    Mariners

    I think those last three, including the Reds, will eventually be doing well enough to not need any extra picks.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

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    Re: Theo Epstein is upset with the competitive draft

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    The local TV money actually isn't much compared to attendance. Assuming a team takes in $35 a person, a team with 2.5M fans would a take in around $85M. A team with 3M fans would take in $105M. Most teams make between $20M-$60M on their local media contracts each year. Now that should change in the upcoming years, if the Dodger deal has any impact on other teams' negotiations,, but as of right now that is the reality.
    I doubt the actual numbers are publicly available, but I think the $35/person estimate is very, very, very high. Unless you are counting concessions.

    jvs

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    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Theo Epstein is upset with the competitive draft

    Let Theo try the first come first serve method for a little while. That really helped competitive balance. Seriously, on what basis does a guy who has worked in two gravy train markets have to opine on the fairness of draft based on prior year standings? He doesn't even have to do his job well to have the resources he needs to buy whatever he wants.
    Can't win with 'em

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    Re: Theo Epstein is upset with the competitive draft

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    I posted about this in a different thread.

    I agree with Epstein. This lottery is a joke.

    First, why is is a lottery? Why not just give very deserving team an extra pick?

    Second, I think teams should be eligible base on two factors: market size, and attendance.

    Everyone thinks the big money is in TV deals, and it is... In the national TV deals. But that money does get distributed fairly, and that is one reason why there is so much parity right now.

    The local TV money actually isn't much compared to attendance. Assuming a team takes in $35 a person, a team with 2.5M fans would a take in around $85M. A team with 3M fans would take in $105M. Most teams make between $20M-$60M on their local media contracts each year. Now that should change in the upcoming years, if the Dodger deal has any impact on other teams' negotiations,, but as of right now that is the reality.

    The point is that if a team can draw well, they can compete. Extra local TV money will help them, but drawing fans to games helps,them just as much, if not more.

    As I stated in the other thread, I would give these teams an extra pick:

    Ray's
    A's
    Twins
    Reds
    Indians
    Mariners

    I think those last three, including the Reds, will eventually be doing well enough to not need any extra picks.
    I think market size is the correct way to do this, and factoring in attendance defeats the entire purpose of the thing. If you have two teams with the same sized markets, and one gets better attendance than the other, why reward the team which is getting worse attendance? The team with worse attendance in the same sized market is almost certainly within control of the team itself, through marketing & recent on the field success. If a team cannot get good attendance even despite being an otherwise well run franchise (think Tampa), then maybe the existence of the franchise needs reconsidered.

    jvs

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    Re: Theo Epstein is upset with the competitive drafty

    Quote Originally Posted by PTjvs View Post
    I doubt the actual numbers are publicly available, but I think the $35/person estimate is very, very, very high. Unless you are counting concessions.

    jvs
    It includes concessions and parking. It's actually a very low estimate. We always spend at least $50 a person when my friends go to a game.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

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    Re: Theo Epstein is upset with the competitive draft

    Quote Originally Posted by PTjvs View Post
    I think market size is the correct way to do this, and factoring in attendance defeats the entire purpose of the thing. If you have two teams with the same sized markets, and one gets better attendance than the other, why reward the team which is getting worse attendance? The team with worse attendance in the same sized market is almost certainly within control of the team itself, through marketing & recent on the field success. If a team cannot get good attendance even despite being an otherwise well run franchise (think Tampa), then maybe the existence of the franchise needs reconsidered.

    jvs
    It's about competitive balance. It's supposed to help teams that need help, through no fault of their own. If a team is successful at drawing fans, why help them?
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

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    Re: Theo Epstein is upset with the competitive draft

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    Let Theo try the first come first serve method for a little while. That really helped competitive balance. Seriously, on what basis does a guy who has worked in two gravy train markets have to opine on the fairness of draft based on prior year standings? He doesn't even have to do his job well to have the resources he needs to buy whatever he wants.
    ??? Um, there are plenty of very large market teams struggling to win. Theo did a great job in Boston and is on his way to doing the same thing in Chicago.

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    Re: Theo Epstein is upset with the competitive draft

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    Let Theo try the first come first serve method for a little while. That really helped competitive balance. Seriously, on what basis does a guy who has worked in two gravy train markets have to opine on the fairness of draft based on prior year standings? He doesn't even have to do his job well to have the resources he needs to buy whatever he wants.
    Good point. He barely has to do anything. It's not like Boston had an epic World Series drought before he got there or anything like that...

  14. #12
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Theo Epstein is upset with the competitive draft

    Seems like whining from both Beane and Theo.. although I guess Theo was classy about it.

    Beane thinks the A's should always get a top 10 pick, and I guess by his logic, the Dodgers and Yankees always get a last round pick?
    How is that fair? The draft is designed to create parity, not to give small market teams a huge advantage (as Beane proposes).
    Plus, it would be bad for baseball to have Oakland and KC become annual powerhouses (due to the rigged system), and no way for a team like the Mets/Cubs to rebuild.

    Why is Theo whining over the Cards getting an additional draft pick too? It's a nice thing to get, but not huge.. the guy the Cardinals get probably has maybe a 20% chance approximately of even just appearing on the big league roster. It's not like this is an extra NBA lottery pick.

    And yea, Theo has tons of resources and money (as due the Astros).. they are wallowing in last place due to the poor way the organizations are run. Maybe the Cubs are on the upswing, but it's kind of laughable that Theo is whining about this.. Maybe if the Cubs signed better FA than Jackson and made other better choices.. then they'd rebuild a lot quicker. Example, they could've probably outbid the Brewers on Lohse and Garza without blinking an eye.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

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