How Would You Rate O'Brien's First Year As GM? - RedsZone.com - Cincinnati Reds Fans' Home for Baseball Discussion

Krusty · 10-25-2004, 05:35 PM

Looking back this past year, I give O'Brien a C rating for this year. Considering that he wasn't hired till November, he had little time to prepare for the Winter Meetings. Instead, his first three months on the job was busy revamping the front office and farm system while instituting policies that were to be followed by every farm team. His first trade is pretty much inconclusive because we won't know for another year or two if Bong and Nelson pan out. You look at Reitsma's numbers and really they didn't improve that much while in a Braves uniform.

Even then, he took conservative approaches by signing journeyman John Vanderwal for the bench and signing journeyman pitcher Corey Lidle and picking Todd Jones off the scrap heap. But if the young players O'Brien got in return for Lidle and Jones pays off two or three years from now, then you have to say O'Brien's moves were a success. But right now, they are inconclusive.

IMO, I expect O'Brien to be more active this offseason. He personally had the entire season to view the entire organization from top to bottom. He made the moves necessary to revitalize the farm system. That is in place. Now, he can devote more time to the major league roster and if Lindner and Allen allows him to bump the payroll to the 57 million mark, I do expect him to be more active addressing the major league roster this offseason.

So, how do you rate O'Brien's first year?

M2 · 10-25-2004, 05:48 PM

D

I covered this in another thread, but the pitching's still a mess, he wasn't able to move any of the team's big contracts, he failed to lock up Dunn and now faces the unenviable to trying to sign an arb eligible with a ton of leverage, the draft was (in my opinion) a mess and DanO didn't manage to land any high end prospect talent in the summer trade market.

He did a few minor things well, so I don't give him an F, but he went 0-fer on the big stuff and his inability to make any progress in those areas has put him in a less advantageous position than when he took over.

Raisor · 10-25-2004, 05:57 PM

D-

Only thing saving him from an F is that he didn't sign Miley to an extension.

Wait, what do you mean he did sign Miley to an extension?

4256 Hits · 10-25-2004, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raisor

D-

Only thing saving him from an F is that he didn't sign Miley to an extension.

Wait, what do you mean he did sign Miley to an extension?

Gets a F from me for same reason.

Falls City Beer · 10-25-2004, 09:48 PM

F

He'd get an F minus if he hadn't made the Reitsma/Bong-Nelson trade.

The guy's clearly slow, but more than that (and more important) he had the worst draft in a long, long time, which was supposed to be his strong suit.

REDREAD · 10-25-2004, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raisor

D-

Only thing saving him from an F is that he didn't sign Miley to an extension.

Wait, what do you mean he did sign Miley to an extension?

Yes, he did it twice :MandJ: He even broke his "no negotiation" rule to do it.
:MandJ:

And why in the heck did he already commit to Miley for 2006? Miley's agent must've given the FO a heck of a deal to give Miley some security.

Good to see you have a sense of humor in the face of disaster Raisor. I predict that within 2 years, Miley will be despised more than Boone. In fact, I'm sure he'll have a worse W-L record too.

RedsBaron · 10-25-2004, 06:17 PM

incomplete-he failed to complete a number of assignments

Ravenlord · 10-25-2004, 06:19 PM

D

i feel pretty much the way M2 feels. i think there will be some improvment this off season though. but if there is none, DanO fails.

VI_RedsFan · 10-25-2004, 06:40 PM

D

Did not get us mlb ready, solid pitchers. He better get to work this off-season.

pedro · 10-25-2004, 06:47 PM

what M2 said

Krusty · 10-25-2004, 07:07 PM

I covered this in another thread, but the pitching's still a mess, he wasn't able to move any of the team's big contracts, he failed to lock up Dunn and now faces the unenviable to trying to sign an arb eligible with a ton of leverage, the draft was (in my opinion) a mess and DanO didn't manage to land any high end prospect talent in the summer trade market.
----------------------------------------------------------
In defense of O'Brien, he wasn't hired till late. The first priority was restructuring the scouting and player development departments. That pretty much took it till the end of January.

As for the pitching, how many top pitching prospects do other organizations part other than if you're the Yankees? These prospects are the crown jewels of the organizations and as the old say goes, "You never have enough pitching."

As for moving big contracts, what would the fans reaction have been if he traded Griffey right before he hit his 500 home run? Don't you think there would be alittle fan backlash? Right after Griffey's 500th home run is when he tore his hamstring. As for Casey and Graves' contracts.....do you conduct another firesale to unload contracts especially after the last trading deadline? And who would assume those contracts if they insisted the Reds to pay a portion of what is still owed?

Now would you lock Dunn to a longterm deal after coming off the 2003 season he did? If O'Brien wants to, this would be the offseason to do it with the improvement Dunn has made under Chris Chambliss. A five year deal would keep him out of arbitration and the first two years of free agency.

While we might have a few players eligible for arbitration, none of them will break the bank because they didn't have outstanding seasons.

As for the draft, how do you rate something you won't know honestly five years from now?

And finally, how many high-end prospects get traded at the trading deadline. Take away the Claussen-Boone deal, and I don't see anyone trading their crown jewels unless they know for sure trading them will get them into the World Series.

steig · 10-25-2004, 07:38 PM

Grade: F :thumbdown
I agree with M2. He also failed to approach the game from a moneyball view when he continued to draft a high school player in the 1st round. To develop pitching we need arms in the minors that don't get blown out after 3 months due to over use in high school.

M2 · 10-25-2004, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krusty

In defense of O'Brien, he wasn't hired till late. The first priority was restructuring the scouting and player development departments. That pretty much took it till the end of January.

As for the pitching, how many top pitching prospects do other organizations part other than if you're the Yankees? These prospects are the crown jewels of the organizations and as the old say goes, "You never have enough pitching."

As for moving big contracts, what would the fans reaction have been if he traded Griffey right before he hit his 500 home run? Don't you think there would be alittle fan backlash? Right after Griffey's 500th home run is when he tore his hamstring. As for Casey and Graves' contracts.....do you conduct another firesale to unload contracts especially after the last trading deadline? And who would assume those contracts if they insisted the Reds to pay a portion of what is still owed?

Now would you lock Dunn to a longterm deal after coming off the 2003 season he did? If O'Brien wants to, this would be the offseason to do it with the improvement Dunn has made under Chris Chambliss. A five year deal would keep him out of arbitration and the first two years of free agency.

While we might have a few players eligible for arbitration, none of them will break the bank because they didn't have outstanding seasons.

As for the draft, how do you rate something you won't know honestly five years from now?

And finally, how many high-end prospects get traded at the trading deadline. Take away the Claussen-Boone deal, and I don't see anyone trading their crown jewels unless they know for sure trading them will get them into the World Series.

A) O'Brien took over within a week of when last season ended. He had five months to get a club ready for the season. That he can't multi-task isn't a point in his favor.

B) I didn't say "pitching" prospects, but since you brought that up I count three pitchers off the BA top 100 who got moved last summer in addition to at least four other highly interesting prospect arms who got moved at the same time. None of them landed in Cincinnati.

C) There wouldn't have been any backlash from this fan if the Reds had moved Jr. or Graves. Either the club makes smart moves or it doesn't. If DanO doesn't have the backbone to move an albatross contract for fear of some momentary criticism, then the Reds hired the wrong guy. And if the ownership wouldn't allow him to consider such deals this summer, then he's a toothless GM.

D) Yes, I would have locked up Dunn to a LTC after his 2003. Must've said so at least 100 times. Would have locked him up after 2002 and 2001 too (though you can't blame DanO for those oversights). I'm one of the least surprised people on the planet that Adam Dunn had a huge season.

E) To me, taking five years to assess a draft is a copout. For instance, you could smell the stank hanging over the 2001 and 2002 Reds drafts within seconds of their completion. The 2004 effort's no different. The arms they drafted are massive long-term projects and the bats they drafted went out slapped "suspect" labels on themselves once they hit the rookie leagues.

F) Good prospects get moved every summer and every winter. Last summer and winter were no exceptions. This coming winter will be no exception. It's a matter of who can put together those deals and get those kids. DanO hasn't shown that ability yet. He's gathered some interesting C prospects, but the only kid he landed with any sort of pedigree was Bubba Nelson and that didn't exactly pan out well (though I wouldn't write Bubba off just yet as he's young and clearly wasn't healthy last season).

Krusty · 10-25-2004, 07:57 PM

I still think Bong will make the club as a lefthanded reliever next season. And, don't count out Nelson making the Louisville roster. Patience is the key.

By the way M2, I'm not singling you out. Ole Krusty is sicker than a dog and off from work today. Looking for some delightful chatter to cure my ill woes.

Ravenlord · 10-25-2004, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krusty

I still think Bong will make the club as a lefthanded reliever next season. And, don't count out Nelson making the Louisville roster. Patience is the key.

i'll agree with that. i thought Bong probably should have been up this year over Norton, or at least called up after Louisville's season.

10-25-2004, 05:35 PM	#1
Krusty Member Join Date: May 2000 Location: Williamsport, PA Posts: 12,311	How Would You Rate O'Brien's First Year As GM? Looking back this past year, I give O'Brien a C rating for this year. Considering that he wasn't hired till November, he had little time to prepare for the Winter Meetings. Instead, his first three months on the job was busy revamping the front office and farm system while instituting policies that were to be followed by every farm team. His first trade is pretty much inconclusive because we won't know for another year or two if Bong and Nelson pan out. You look at Reitsma's numbers and really they didn't improve that much while in a Braves uniform. Even then, he took conservative approaches by signing journeyman John Vanderwal for the bench and signing journeyman pitcher Corey Lidle and picking Todd Jones off the scrap heap. But if the young players O'Brien got in return for Lidle and Jones pays off two or three years from now, then you have to say O'Brien's moves were a success. But right now, they are inconclusive. IMO, I expect O'Brien to be more active this offseason. He personally had the entire season to view the entire organization from top to bottom. He made the moves necessary to revitalize the farm system. That is in place. Now, he can devote more time to the major league roster and if Lindner and Allen allows him to bump the payroll to the 57 million mark, I do expect him to be more active addressing the major league roster this offseason. So, how do you rate O'Brien's first year? __________________ If you think small, you'll go nowhere in life.

10-25-2004, 05:48 PM	#2
M2 Posting in Dynarama Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Boston Posts: 26,668	Re: How Would You Rate O'Brien's First Year As GM? D I covered this in another thread, but the pitching's still a mess, he wasn't able to move any of the team's big contracts, he failed to lock up Dunn and now faces the unenviable to trying to sign an arb eligible with a ton of leverage, the draft was (in my opinion) a mess and DanO didn't manage to land any high end prospect talent in the summer trade market. He did a few minor things well, so I don't give him an F, but he went 0-fer on the big stuff and his inability to make any progress in those areas has put him in a less advantageous position than when he took over. __________________ Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong I'm witchcrafting everybody. Last edited by M2; 10-25-2004 at 06:20 PM.

10-25-2004, 05:57 PM	#3
Raisor Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Posts: 12,668	Re: How Would You Rate O'Brien's First Year As GM? D- Only thing saving him from an F is that he didn't sign Miley to an extension. Wait, what do you mean he did sign Miley to an extension? __________________ "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

10-25-2004, 09:48 PM	#5
Falls City Beer Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 24,098	Re: How Would You Rate O'Brien's First Year As GM? F He'd get an F minus if he hadn't made the Reitsma/Bong-Nelson trade. The guy's clearly slow, but more than that (and more important) he had the worst draft in a long, long time, which was supposed to be his strong suit.

10-25-2004, 06:17 PM	#7
RedsBaron Big Red Machine Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Out Wayne Posts: 22,365	Re: How Would You Rate O'Brien's First Year As GM? incomplete-he failed to complete a number of assignments __________________ "Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."

10-25-2004, 06:19 PM	#8
Ravenlord Into de Halls of Valhalla Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: mostly Williamsburg....occassionaly the rest of the several state region. Posts: 8,909	Re: How Would You Rate O'Brien's First Year As GM? D i feel pretty much the way M2 feels. i think there will be some improvment this off season though. but if there is none, DanO fails. __________________ the store for all your blade, costuming (in any regard), leather (also in any regard), and steel craft needs.www.facebook.com/tdhshop yes, this really is how we make our living.

10-25-2004, 06:40 PM	#9
VI_RedsFan Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 721	Re: How Would You Rate O'Brien's First Year As GM? D Did not get us mlb ready, solid pitchers. He better get to work this off-season.

10-25-2004, 06:47 PM	#10
pedro Please come again Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: portland, oregon Posts: 14,716	Re: How Would You Rate O'Brien's First Year As GM? what M2 said __________________ Get your nunchucks and the keys to your dad's car. I know where we can get a gun

10-25-2004, 07:07 PM	#11
Krusty Member Join Date: May 2000 Location: Williamsport, PA Posts: 12,311	Re: How Would You Rate O'Brien's First Year As GM? I covered this in another thread, but the pitching's still a mess, he wasn't able to move any of the team's big contracts, he failed to lock up Dunn and now faces the unenviable to trying to sign an arb eligible with a ton of leverage, the draft was (in my opinion) a mess and DanO didn't manage to land any high end prospect talent in the summer trade market. ---------------------------------------------------------- In defense of O'Brien, he wasn't hired till late. The first priority was restructuring the scouting and player development departments. That pretty much took it till the end of January. As for the pitching, how many top pitching prospects do other organizations part other than if you're the Yankees? These prospects are the crown jewels of the organizations and as the old say goes, "You never have enough pitching." As for moving big contracts, what would the fans reaction have been if he traded Griffey right before he hit his 500 home run? Don't you think there would be alittle fan backlash? Right after Griffey's 500th home run is when he tore his hamstring. As for Casey and Graves' contracts.....do you conduct another firesale to unload contracts especially after the last trading deadline? And who would assume those contracts if they insisted the Reds to pay a portion of what is still owed? Now would you lock Dunn to a longterm deal after coming off the 2003 season he did? If O'Brien wants to, this would be the offseason to do it with the improvement Dunn has made under Chris Chambliss. A five year deal would keep him out of arbitration and the first two years of free agency. While we might have a few players eligible for arbitration, none of them will break the bank because they didn't have outstanding seasons. As for the draft, how do you rate something you won't know honestly five years from now? And finally, how many high-end prospects get traded at the trading deadline. Take away the Claussen-Boone deal, and I don't see anyone trading their crown jewels unless they know for sure trading them will get them into the World Series. __________________ If you think small, you'll go nowhere in life.

10-25-2004, 07:38 PM	#12
steig Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Centerville,OH Posts: 635	Re: How Would You Rate O'Brien's First Year As GM? Grade: F :thumbdown I agree with M2. He also failed to approach the game from a moneyball view when he continued to draft a high school player in the 1st round. To develop pitching we need arms in the minors that don't get blown out after 3 months due to over use in high school.

10-25-2004, 07:57 PM	#14
Krusty Member Join Date: May 2000 Location: Williamsport, PA Posts: 12,311	Re: How Would You Rate O'Brien's First Year As GM? I still think Bong will make the club as a lefthanded reliever next season. And, don't count out Nelson making the Louisville roster. Patience is the key. By the way M2, I'm not singling you out. Ole Krusty is sicker than a dog and off from work today. Looking for some delightful chatter to cure my ill woes. __________________ If you think small, you'll go nowhere in life.

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