Tejada for Ramirez/Clement?

[Rex Argos]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10641752/

The Boston Red Sox have made a "pretty good offer" to the Baltimore Orioles for disgruntled shortstop Miguel Tejada, the Boston Globe reported Thursday, citing an unnamed source close to the talks.

The Red Sox, who first offered outfielder Manny Ramirez for Tejada, sweetened the talks by also adding right-hander Matt Clement, the Globe reported.

Ramirez would have to approve any trade, and the Orioles management is concerned about trading Tejada within the division, the Globe reported

Perhaps the biggest stumbling block, however, is that Ramirez and Clement are due $22 million more in guaranteed money than Tejada, the newspaper reported. Ramirez is set to receive $57 million over three seasons, Clement $19.25 million over two, and Tejada $48 million over four, the Globe reported.

The Orioles' near agreement with 36-year-old outfielder Jeromy Burnitz could also scuttle the deal because Baltimore won't have as big a need for Ramirez.

© 2005 NBC Sports.com

[M2]

Yeah, let Jeromy Burnitz cost you one of the best hitters on the planet and a guy who'll likely be your ace. The doofus quotient in the Orioles organization may be at an all-time high.

[Rex Argos]

I'm not getting that Burnitz deal either...were they planning to play him in RF, or were they going to DH him? At 36, he's going to be a liability in the field.

[blumj]

The Orioles do all kinds of strange things. I think they're planning on playing Javy Lopez at 1B, even though he's never played there before. They re-signed Ponson to that ridiculous deal after they'd finally gotten rid of him the first time. It took them 2 years to make BJ Ryan the closer, even though he was obviously a much better pitcher than that headcase Julio. They moved Melvin Mora around to so many different positions that it probably takes him a few minutes to remember where to go every game. They even traded for Sammy Sosa and brought back Palmeiro last year, as if they didn't know about the new steroid policy. And whenever it seems like they're actually on the verge of making a good deal, they never wind up actually making it. Getting Tejada is easily the best thing they've done in the last 10 years, and they've managed to alienate him by refusing to spend any money on pitching, and always adding more past-their-prime OF/1B/DH types.

And, by the way, whoever it was that was comparing Manny Ramirez to Albert Belle, if I'm getting the comparison right, Manny isn't anything like him. Everyone likes Manny, he's really goofy and entertaining, his teammates all love him, but he's like a big 8 year old who keeps changing his mind and has no sense of responsibility. He drives people nuts, but he's very good natured, which I don't think was the case with Belle at all.

[Nugget]

According to the wires Burnitz has signed for two years at 10-12.

I wonder why the Red sox are so keen on getting rid of Clement, consensus last yaer was that he was a gun.

[blumj]

Clement drives everyone crazy because he can't find the strike zone on a regular basis. And, frankly, he was their 4th choice even when they signed him, after Pedro, Radke, and Pavano. They even signed 42 year old David Wells first, and, say what you want about him, the big guy throws strikes.

[Red Heeler]

Boston, for the second year in a row, appears to be desperate to get rid of Manny. For some reason that makes no sense at all, they are also anxious to get rid of Clement. With Manny gone, they would need another potent bat. With or without Manny, they need another OF.

Trade Proposal (with vision beyond the scope of the Reds management):

Reds trade Ken Griffey Jr. and Wily Mo Pena (or Austin Kearns, their pick) for ManRam, Clement, Youkilis, and Jon Lester. Straight up...no cash changes hands. Throw in Papelborn, too and I'm willing to sub FeLo for Pena/Kearns.

"There is now way the Reds can afford both Ramirez and Clement!!!" you say.

Nothing says that the Reds have to keep Manny. I'd be actively shopping him for a haul of young talent. In fact, if the Mets would pony up Reyes, I would be satisfied. On the other hand, I would make it perfectly clear that I was willing to operate at a loss for the year if the return was not of my liking. Manny would have the right, which I assume he would excercise if traded to the Reds, to opt out of his contract at the end of the year.

[Nugget]

A few problems with the trade.

1. Junior would have to OK that trade and he doesn't seem very keen to move to AL East. And they can't really guarantee him a world series.

2. Clement and Reyes would seem to be iffy talent to blow up a third of your starting roster.

3. Given that the trade would be cash neutral plus we are trading for talent does that mean that anywhere we trade Manny we would be offering cash as well.

4. The contenders for the Manny signature do not seem to have the pitching talent. Granted the O's have Bedard but since they have acquired Burnitz they wouldn't be in the Manny hunt. That leaves the Mets which have farm system worse than the REDS.

[Revering4Blue]

Regardless of whether or not the Orioles "need" Manny Ramirez, they should make the deal, and not look back.

Just as Red Heeler noted in his trade proposal--which I actually believe is a good idea--the O's don't have to keep Ramirez. They could then turn around and peddle Man Ram to the Angels for a package based around Orlando Cabrera
and Ervin Santana, with Manny Aybar waiting in the wings for the Angels.

All told, this scenerio presents a win-win situation for the O's.

[Red Heeler]

Originally Posted by Nugget

A few problems with the trade.

1. Junior would have to OK that trade and he doesn't seem very keen to move to AL East. And they can't really guarantee him a world series.

Junior has to be realistic enough to realize that he is unlikely to make the playoffs for the rest of his career if he stays with the Reds. IIRC, his only problem with the AL East was with the Yankees.

2. Clement and Reyes would seem to be iffy talent to blow up a third of your starting roster.

You left out Youkilis and Lester. A top shelf SS, a high quality starter, a 1B who will likely better Casey's OPS, and a good, near ML ready starter and $3 million in PayFlex in exchange for Griffey and Pena (or Kearns) looks like a pretty good deal to me.

3. Given that the trade would be cash neutral plus we are trading for talent does that mean that anywhere we trade Manny we would be offering cash as well.

No need to send money anywhere with Manny. There are only a handful of hitters in the Majors who are in his class.

4. The contenders for the Manny signature do not seem to have the pitching talent. Granted the O's have Bedard but since they have acquired Burnitz they wouldn't be in the Manny hunt. That leaves the Mets which have farm system worse than the REDS.

The Reds can use talent of any kind. Don't let the fact that you aren't addressing the pitching stop you from improving the team.

[Hondo]

Lets say this guys......I would not trade Junior for anything. he means a lot to the Franchise!! I understand all your points about injuries, payroll flexibility, etc.....But Junior brings a lot more to the clubhouse than games played.....(Please don't make fun of that last sentence). My point is if you can trade Wily Mo Pena and Felipe Lopez for Manny Ramierz and have Boston pick up the difference in Salary.....you do it.....If they offer Clement...You just pay him what he is owed....But Boston should eat some of that contract.....The Rangers did it with A-Rod...I live in Texas and they pay him 9 million a year.....well, either to New York or Alex....But anyhow.....If the Sox pick up that same amount? His salary is like 11 Million on the Reds books! With Clement making his last 2 years Salary of 3 years/25 million......you do it.....I don't care about Lester....I mean I do but make this a Baseball trade...

All-Star SS Felipe Lopez
20-40 HR Potetial OF Wily Mo Pena

for

All-Star OF Manny Ramirez
RHP Matt Clement
9 million a year for Manny's salarty adjustment

You do it.

Freel 2B
Larkin SS (Just joking...you all pick a player)
Dunn 1B
Griffey CF
Ramirez LF
Kearns RF
LaRue C
Encarncion 3B

RHP Harang
LHP Claussen
RHP Clement
LHP Williams
RHP Rijo (Joking again....you pick)

I think it is a doable trade....and a Baseball trade finnally!

[TOBTTReds]

Dream Weaver

[Oxilon]

Originally Posted by Rex Argos

The Boston Red Sox have made a "pretty good offer" to the Baltimore Orioles for disgruntled shortstop Miguel Tejada, the Boston Globe reported Thursday, citing an unnamed source close to the talks

Talk about a biased Boston media...

I don't understand how you can refer to Miguel Tejada as "disgruntled" in the same paragraph Manny Ramirez is mentioned in, without any harsh words describing him.

[blumj]

Originally Posted by Oxilon

Talk about a biased Boston media...

I don't understand how you can refer to Miguel Tejada as "disgruntled" in the same paragraph Manny Ramirez is mentioned in, without any harsh words describing him.

The Boston Globe is owned by the NY Times, which owns %17 of the Boston Red Sox. Of course, to be fair, the readership of the Globe is mostly well aware of how disgruntled Manny Ramirez has been for quite some time, far longer than Tejada's newfound disgruntlement, if that's a word.

[Nugget]

In which case you are just trading for the sake of making a trade. Your not really upgrading in any position as now you have now center fielder and Lopez outplayed Reyes last year. You may get Clement but at what cost. I don't think anyone is going to take Manny for top shelf talent without getting some payroll with it. If they were why not trade for Manny straight up. Boston needs a SS so why don't the Mets trade, maybe because Boston doesn't want to send money. Youklis is overrated as a 1B or a starter (in my opinion).