Alex Gonzalez to the Reds

[Az. Reds Fan]

Sorry if this has been posted...


Alex Gonzalez-SS-Red Sox Nov. 16 - 8:32 pm et


Free agent Alex Gonzalez reportedly has a three-year, $15 million offer on the table, likely from either the White Sox or the Reds.

The Blue Jays have also been talking to Gonzalez, but they didn't make the offer. If Gonzalez can get this kind of deal, Julio Lugo at four years and $32 million would look very attractive. Of course, if it's the White Sox that sign Gonzalez, the same teams that are considering Gonzalez right now would likely covet Juan Uribe. Uribe is about as good defensively and has more offensive potential. Should the Reds get Gonzalez, Brandon Phillips would stay at second base. It'd make the decision to re-sign Juan Castro look awfully redundant.

Yuck, let's hope it's the Sox who want him.

[TOBTTReds]

I would cry if this is what Krivsky thinks is a good option.

PLEASE be the White Sox!!

His 06 numbers:

.255 .299 .397 .696

3 years...15 mil!!!! this is ridiculous. I hope it is a lie that he has that just so he can try to drive the price up.

[Patrick Bateman]

Originally Posted by AvesIce51

I would cry if this is what Krivsky thinks is a good option.

PLEASE be the White Sox!!

His 06 numbers:

.255 .299 .397 .696

3 years...15 mil!!!! this is ridiculous. I hope it is a lie that he has that just so he can try to drive the price up.

Yes his hitting is poor, but he also offers some of the best defense at SS in all of baseball. Based on the alternatives currently available, I think this would be okay.

He would provide a good boost to the pitching, especially when paired with Phillips, we would have one of the best DP combos in baseball.

[Kc61]

Originally Posted by AvesIce51

I would cry if this is what Krivsky thinks is a good option.

PLEASE be the White Sox!!

His 06 numbers:

.255 .299 .397 .696

3 years...15 mil!!!! this is ridiculous. I hope it is a lie that he has that just so he can try to drive the price up.

Honus Wagner and Ozzie Smith are unavailable this year. Three years and 15 million for a great fielding shortstop who can hit .250 is fine with me. Reds will have to add offense at other positions but this would be a huge upgrade in the infield. If they sign Gonzalez, how about some ground ball type pitchers so he has something to field.

[TOBTTReds]

Originally Posted by Kc61

Honus Wagner and Ozzie Smith are unavailable this year. Three years and 15 million for a great fielding shortstop who can hit .250 is fine with me. Reds will have to add offense at other positions but this would be a huge upgrade in the infield. If they sign Gonzalez, how about some ground ball type pitchers so he has something to field.

I see what you are saying, and I guess this move is ok IF! we add a ton of offense elsewhere. There is a lot of talk about trading Dunn. We can't be trading him without getting some O in return.

But let's get realistic with some of those comparisons. His D is not Ozzie Smith or Honus Wagner like. His range factor was IDENTICAL to Royce Clayton's this year via the Bill James Handbook. He was the 15th ranked SS in the majors. In 2006. I'll pass.

[dabvu2498]

Originally Posted by AvesIce51

But let's get realistic with some of those comparisons. His D is not Ozzie Smith or Honus Wagner like. His range factor was IDENTICAL to Royce Clayton's this year via the Bill James Handbook. He was the 15th ranked SS in the majors. In 2006. I'll pass.

http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/...s_as_i_see_it/

"Dialed in" had Gonzales ranked 3rd in the AL with 14 Runs Saved vs. average SS/150. Clayton was -7.

[GAC]

Originally Posted by AvesIce51

I would cry if this is what Krivsky thinks is a good option.

PLEASE be the White Sox!!

His 06 numbers:

.255 .299 .397 .696

What are those numbers in comparison to the league average for SS's?

I know they are somewhat low, but would it be a solid improvement to our middle INF defense? Is that a plus that should be factored into the equation other then looking at a player's OPS?

Why is that always the first thing many seem to look at on a player?

OPS alone is not the most reliable and dependable stat for getting a total evaluation of a player. IMHO, it's not a "tell-all" stat.

But I also agree with M2. If the offense is there around a player like Gonzalez, and can make up for that "lack", then I see nothing wrong when that player has a solid glove.

I just wouldn't commit to him long term.

[PuffyPig]

Originally Posted by GAC

OPS alone is not the most reliable and dependable stat for getting a total evaluation of a player. IMHO, it's not a "tell-all" stat.

I'm not disagreeing with your assessment of Gonzalez, but what stat "alone" is more reliable for getting a total evaluation of a player?

I'd argue that no stat "alone" gives a complete evaluation of a player, but OPS as a sole stat comes closest.

[GAC]

Originally Posted by PuffyPig

I'm not disagreeing with your assessment of Gonzalez, but what stat "alone" is more reliable for getting a total evaluation of a player?

I'd argue that no stat "alone" gives a complete evaluation of a player, but OPS as a sole stat comes closest.

My point is that every time a player is mentioned, OPS is immediately utilized to quantify whether the player is worth it, or simply fodder.

I'm not disagreeing that OPS isn't a "quick reference" to give a basic feel about a player. Only that when evaluating a player, looking at OB% and SLG% only is not giving a complete picture when evaluating a player and/or what they might contribute.

What about defense? If this guy can bring a solid upgrade, at a reasonable price, to this middle INF, is that of any value and/or should be considered?

Concepcion played 19 season with a sub-700 OPS.

How many games did our defense lose for us last year? Would Gonzalez possibly help to improve on that?

And what other viable alternatives are out there and available right now as far as SS/2B?

[Wheelhouse]

Originally Posted by GAC

My point is that every time a player is mentioned, OPS is immediately utilized to quantify whether the player is worth it, or simply fodder.

I'm not disagreeing that OPS isn't a "quick reference" to give a basic feel about a player. Only that when evaluating a player, looking at OB% and SLG% only is not giving a complete picture when evaluating a player and/or what they might contribute.

What about defense? If this guy can bring a solid upgrade, at a reasonable price, to this middle INF, is that of any value and/or should be considered?

Concepcion played 19 season with a sub-700 OPS.

How many games did our defense lose for us last year? Would Gonzalez possibly help to improve on that?

And what other viable alternatives are out there and available right now as far as SS/2B?

Good courage GAC. We can only hope that you would not be attacked if you didn't put a smiley next to the Concepcion sentencen about OPS, but I'm not sure that would soften the Maoist wrath of those who bring their sliderules to the ballpark. The answer is, OPS can describe, at most, 1/3 of a players value--another 1/3 being defense, and the other 1/3 being intangibles. But, of course, anything being intangible in the game is an enormous threat to those who think the game is wholly definable in numbers.

[GAC]

I like the signing. It fills a dire need on this team - solid middle INF defense.

To those that hate this signing I simply ask....

"What else, as far as SSs was out there and available? Are you saying you would have passed? What then was your solution for the Red's middle INF in '07?"

Signing Gonzo does not financially strap this organization. Or is it going to prevent them from still dealing in the market and/or making a trade for other pressing needs (pitcher, run producer).

The market itself COULD prevent that.

But again... IMHO, they filled a dire need on this team.

Now if we can just get them to put Deno in CFer (since he is our ONLY alternative at this point), we'd really go along way to improving this defense.

Kriv's next step though HAS to be addressing either issue of runs allowed and/or runs produced.

[RedLegSuperStar]

I'm down with that. 5 mil per.. not to shabby for a slick fielding SS. Put him in GABP and who knows.. that average could rise.

[MrCinatit]

I wouldn't be mad if we got him. Stellar shortstops don't seem to be populationg the market this year - and having someone who can actually catch and throw the ball could be a nice relief.
As long as it is the one from the Redsox, and not the one from the Phillies.

[Matt700wlw]

Would you rather have Clatyon?


I'd be fine with this move. DEFENSE

[membengal]

Originally Posted by Matt700wlw

Would you rather have Clatyon?

Is that the only other option?

I would prefer they explore other options...