Gallon of milk projected to cost $4.50 soon!

[WMR]

Heard it on the news today.

[zombielady]

I'm just gonna go buy a cow... Now mind you, that is whole vitamin d milk that will cost that much. Skim and 2% will only be three fifty a gallon.

[Ltlabner]

I demand investigations of Big Dairy! Too much profit I say.

[KronoRed]

Originally Posted by Ltlabner

I demand investigations of Big Dairy! Too much profit I say.

Agreed.

Seriously

[LoganBuck]

Originally Posted by KronoRed

Agreed.

Seriously

Seriously wrong. I know of many families that are losing farms that have been in their families for 160 years. Some of those milk upwards of 700 cows. They have shattered lives, heritages, marriages, and financial ruin. It truely makes me sad.

[WMR]

Interestingly, the report I heard linked the rise in price to gasoline.

Not how you'd think, though. Not because of shipping etc. etc., but because corn usage for alternative fuels/alternative fuel research is through the roof.

[redsfanfalcon]

Before you all go knocking on the dairy farmers, my dad is one...he ended up having to sell to a bigger dairy to avoid losing everything to the bank a few years back when dairy prices were ridiculously low. He still works there, but he doesn't own it. (The place that bought the farm hired him) I feel so bad...he's in his sixties, and not a pot to pee in...

[Unassisted]

Originally Posted by redsfanfalcon

Before you all go knocking on the dairy farmers, my dad is one...he ended up having to sell to a bigger dairy to avoid losing everything to the bank a few years back when dairy prices were ridiculously low. He still works there, but he doesn't own it. (The place that bought the farm hired him) I feel so bad...he's in his sixties, and not a pot to pee in...

The small dairy farms in the midwest have gotten the shaft for years from the current milk-pricing structure. With razor-thin profit margins, it's tough for a dairy farmer to make a living unless they scale up to a massive herd and 24-hour milking.

[Yachtzee]

I already pay $3.79 for the organic variety. Maybe it's just marketing, but I feel better giving it to my young boys.

[LoganBuck]

As resident dairy farmer of this board, I think it is long over due. Be ready for it to follow with all of your animal products, and vegetables as well. The US animal agriculture system is based on the price of corn. Somehow or other the price of milk did not follow the price of corn for the last nine months. Milk is priced on a complicated system of orders, blend and pool prices, and VOLUNTARY inventory reporting. I took two college classes on it from one of the leaders in the field, and I still don't understand it. However, this is a supply demand issue. Cows are hitting the bricks, because farmers can not afford to pay for $4 a bushel corn when the current system is based on $2 corn. For a point of reference, I milk 115 cows, and it cost me an additional $15,000 out of pocket. At the end of the day most farmers don't make any more take home pay then most people working 40 hour weeks, when they are working 65. So that really hurts. Costs of production have obviously increased with fuel prices, and with the raising of the minimum wage, which is raising the lower end of the pay scale for unskilled labor. The new demand for corn as a biofuel, has very scary ramifications across the board. Recently Time magazine predicted that by 2012 that the entire corn crop at current levels of production would go for ethanol, like that was a good thing.

Originally Posted by Yachtzee

I already pay $3.79 for the organic variety. Maybe it's just marketing, but I feel better giving it to my young boys.

You are being sold a bill of goods, because other than being fed organic feed, the cows on the whole are raised the same as any other animal. Organic animal products do have one downside that is frequently ignored. Animals do get sick, without antibiotics they either must go for meat, or they die. Some of the new organically friendly treatments do help, but they are not substitutes for perfectly safe antibiotics used in disease intervention. Animals that could be saved and live perfectly healthy lives, die routinely.

[Yachtzee]

Originally Posted by LoganBuck

As resident dairy farmer of this board, I think it is long over do. Be ready for it to follow with all of your animal products, and vegetables as well. The US animal agriculture system is based on the price of corn. Somehow or other the price of milk did not follow the price of corn for the last nine months. Milk is priced on a complicated system of orders, blend and pool prices, and VOLUNTARY inventory reporting. I took two college classes on it from one of the leaders in the field, and I still don't understand it. However, this is a supply demand issue. Cows are hitting the bricks, because farmers can not afford to pay for $4 a bushel corn when the current system is based on $2 corn. For a point of reference, I milk 115 cows, and it cost me an additional $15,000 out of pocket. At the end of the day most farmers don't make any more take home pay then most people working 40 hour weeks, when they are working 65. So that really hurts. Costs of production have obviously increased with fuel prices, and with the raising of the minimum wage, which is raising the lower end of the pay scale for unskilled labor. The new demand for corn as a biofuel, has very scary ramifications across the board. Recently Time magazine predicted that by 2012 that the entire corn crop at current levels of production would go for ethanol, like that was a good thing.



You are being sold a bill of goods, because other than being fed organic feed, the cows on the whole are raised the same as any other animal. Organic animal products do have one downside that is frequently ignored. Animals do get sick, without antibiotics they either must go for meat, or they die. Some of the new organically friendly treatments do help, but they are not substitutes for perfectly safe antibiotics used in disease intervention. Animals that could be saved and live perfectly healthy lives, die routinely.

Well, from our perspective, it's the use of the antibiotics that are the concern. It's not that we don't want cows to live long, healthy lives. It's just a concern, whether founded or unfounded, that extensive use of antibiotics would cause some of those antibiotics to pass through the milk and into our children. The concern is that those antibiotics may transfer to our kids and affect their own immune system. We get a lot of that from our doctor, who is of the opinion that antibiotics, while helpful, should only be used in limited quantities for situations that really warrant it. She believes that excessive use of antibiotics not only produces "supergerms," but also weakens the body's ability to fight off infection on its own and kills off beneficial bacterial flora in the digestive system.

We didn't really think about it much until we had children and my wife started nursing and learning about all the stuff that she transfers from her body to our baby through milk. Now, of course pasteurization does a lot to kill off harmful bacteria that could come from the animal, but does that process remove antibiotics that may be transfered from the cow? Is there any additional processing? Maybe you could shed some light on the process, because beyond pasteurization, I really have little idea of how milk gets from the cow to my local grocery store.

Your point about corn prices is interesting. I've never really connected the dots between the whole push for biofuels like ethanol and biodiesel and how it affects other aspects of agriculture.

[LoganBuck]

Originally Posted by Yachtzee

Well, from our perspective, it's the use of the antibiotics that are the concern. It's not that we don't want cows to live long, healthy lives. It's just a concern, whether founded or unfounded, that extensive use of antibiotics would cause some of those antibiotics to pass through the milk and into our children. The concern is that those antibiotics may transfer to our kids and affect their own immune system. We get a lot of that from our doctor, who is of the opinion that antibiotics, while helpful, should only be used in limited quantities for situations that really warrant it. She believes that excessive use of antibiotics not only produces "supergerms," but also weakens the body's ability to fight off infection on its own and kills off beneficial bacterial flora in the digestive system.

We didn't really think about it much until we had children and my wife started nursing and learning about all the stuff that she transfers from her body to our baby through milk. Now, of course pasteurization does a lot to kill off harmful bacteria that could come from the animal, but does that process remove antibiotics that may be transfered from the cow? Is there any additional processing? Maybe you could shed some light on the process, because beyond pasteurization, I really have little idea of how milk gets from the cow to my local grocery store.

Your point about corn prices is interesting. I've never really connected the dots between the whole push for biofuels like ethanol and biodiesel and how it affects other aspects of agriculture.

I will be glad to answer your questions.

1. ALL the milk at the grocery store is antibiotic free. It is all tested. Every drop. When antibiotics are administered to cows, a certain established withdraw period is established for each antibiotic, and those guidelines must be followed, or the testing will detect the antibiotic, and your milk will be run down a drain along with whatever other milk the tainted milk came into contact with. The farmer is responsible for this lost milk. One 5000 gallon bulk milk truck costs about $6500 to the farmer

Animal antibiotics are highly regulated, and labeled by the FDA. The FDA has removed certain products from animal use over the years to protect certain classes of drugs for human populations. Most on farm antibiotics approved for food animals are forms of penicillin, or tetracycline.

Some farms use antibiotics to promote feed efficiency. These classes of drugs are what those in the organic movement use to give the idea that cows are pumped full of drugs. The funny thing is these drugs like Rumensin, will not pass through the digestive system to the body. They stay with the digestive tract and are passed through the cow. They are fed in very low amounts and do not pass into milk.

2. Pasteurization kills bacteria

3. You didn't ask the question but I will answer the next question, about hormones. All cow's milk contains rBST (including organic), the bovine growth hormone. It occurs naturally. Some animals are given supplemental rBST. Their milk is indistinguishable from milk produced without supplemental rBST. There is a large movement in the United States to get rBST removed from the market by dairy farmers. We see it as a way to lower production, especially on large "factory" farms, in order to raise the overall price of milk. Pure supply demand dynamic

4. The integrity of the organic products at mega stores like WalMart. These products are "organic" in name and by the liberal interpretations of the rules. They are trying to produce as much "organic" products as possible to meet demand. I will add that steps are being taken to close some loopholes. Like in dairy cows for example, to qualify for organic labeling cows must have access to pasture. The definition of pasture, for how long the cows must be on pasture, and how many cows may be on that particular piece of land were never established. By definition Pasture can be a 1/4 acre piece of fenced in dirt attached to the end of a 700 cow barn. That is a flat out joke. The organic industry knows their credibility is on the line when things like this are pointed out. They are working to standardize and regulate these things.

Some people/firms sneak around organic rules and use standard products, because those products are safe, and undetectable. However if they goof up it will get caught by the same testing non organic products must go by. I know of one truck load of "organic" milk that was rejected because of antibiotics detected in the milk. Gee, how did they get in there? The farmer used a antibiotic on one cow, did not tell anyone, and the hired help did not know to withhold her milk. Viola!

To sum it up if you feel that you want to use organic products, buy from small Farmers markets, for local products that are produced under Certification that it is indeed organic. Or buy from well known stores like Whole Foods, or Wild Oats. Just don't buy into the idea that these products were produced using love and magic fairy dust.

[Yachtzee]

Originally Posted by LoganBuck

I will be glad to answer your questions.

1. ALL the milk at the grocery store is antibiotic free. It is all tested. Every drop. When antibiotics are administered to cows, a certain established withdraw period is established for each antibiotic, and those guidelines must be followed, or the testing will detect the antibiotic, and your milk will be run down a drain along with whatever other milk the tainted milk came into contact with. The farmer is responsible for this lost milk. One 5000 gallon bulk milk truck costs about $6500 to the farmer

Animal antibiotics are highly regulated, and labeled by the FDA. The FDA has removed certain products from animal use over the years to protect certain classes of drugs for human populations. Most on farm antibiotics approved for food animals are forms of penicillin, or tetracycline.

Some farms use antibiotics to promote feed efficiency. These classes of drugs are what those in the organic movement use to give the idea that cows are pumped full of drugs. The funny thing is these drugs like Rumensin, will not pass through the digestive system to the body. They stay with the digestive tract and are passed through the cow. They are fed in very low amounts and do not pass into milk.

2. Pasteurization kills bacteria

3. You didn't ask the question but I will answer the next question, about hormones. All cow's milk contains rBST (including organic), the bovine growth hormone. It occurs naturally. Some animals are given supplemental rBST. Their milk is indistinguishable from milk produced without supplemental rBST. There is a large movement in the United States to get rBST removed from the market by dairy farmers. We see it as a way to lower production, especially on large "factory" farms, in order to raise the overall price of milk. Pure supply demand dynamic

4. The integrity of the organic products at mega stores like WalMart. These products are "organic" in name and by the liberal interpretations of the rules. They are trying to produce as much "organic" products as possible to meet demand. I will add that steps are being taken to close some loopholes. Like in dairy cows for example, to qualify for organic labeling cows must have access to pasture. The definition of pasture, for how long the cows must be on pasture, and how many cows may be on that particular piece of land were never established. By definition Pasture can be a 1/4 acre piece of fenced in dirt attached to the end of a 700 cow barn. That is a flat out joke. The organic industry knows their credibility is on the line when things like this are pointed out. They are working to standardize and regulate these things.

Some people/firms sneak around organic rules and use standard products, because those products are safe, and undetectable. However if they goof up it will get caught by the same testing non organic products must go by. I know of one truck load of "organic" milk that was rejected because of antibiotics detected in the milk. Gee, how did they get in there? The farmer used a antibiotic on one cow, did not tell anyone, and the hired help did not know to withhold her milk. Viola!

To sum it up if you feel that you want to use organic products, buy from small Farmers markets, for local products that are produced under Certification that it is indeed organic. Or buy from well known stores like Whole Foods, or Wild Oats. Just don't buy into the idea that these products were produced using love and magic fairy dust.

Thanks for the info. Definitely stuff to keep in mind. We do most of our shopping at the local Giant Eagle (I think the closest store in the "Whole Foods" vein is at least 30 mins. away). They do a fair job of stocking local products, including produce and dairy, and we try to buy local when we can. While "organic" sounds nice, we try to balance that with other consideration, like how far did it take to get here and whether we can trust that it is what it says it is. From a consumer perspective it would be nice to have a standardized concept for what constitutes "organic." We also have a from down the road which is a nice place to buy fresh produce and there's a farmer's market in the next town over that deals with a lot of local farmers. Personally I think the local stuff tastes better than the stuff that was picked while still unripe and shipped from California or Chile. Some exotic stuff you can't get, but if I'm buying stuff in season, you can't beat local.

[redsfanfalcon]

Originally Posted by LoganBuck

As resident dairy farmer of this board, I think it is long over due. Be ready for it to follow with all of your animal products, and vegetables as well. The US animal agriculture system is based on the price of corn. Somehow or other the price of milk did not follow the price of corn for the last nine months. Milk is priced on a complicated system of orders, blend and pool prices, and VOLUNTARY inventory reporting. I took two college classes on it from one of the leaders in the field, and I still don't understand it. However, this is a supply demand issue. Cows are hitting the bricks, because farmers can not afford to pay for $4 a bushel corn when the current system is based on $2 corn. For a point of reference, I milk 115 cows, and it cost me an additional $15,000 out of pocket. At the end of the day most farmers don't make any more take home pay then most people working 40 hour weeks, when they are working 65. So that really hurts. Costs of production have obviously increased with fuel prices, and with the raising of the minimum wage, which is raising the lower end of the pay scale for unskilled labor. The new demand for corn as a biofuel, has very scary ramifications across the board. Recently Time magazine predicted that by 2012 that the entire corn crop at current levels of production would go for ethanol, like that was a good thing.



You are being sold a bill of goods, because other than being fed organic feed, the cows on the whole are raised the same as any other animal. Organic animal products do have one downside that is frequently ignored. Animals do get sick, without antibiotics they either must go for meat, or they die. Some of the new organically friendly treatments do help, but they are not substitutes for perfectly safe antibiotics used in disease intervention. Animals that could be saved and live perfectly healthy lives, die routinely.

Loganbuck, you instantly have my respect...I know how hard my dad works, and rarely gets a vacation.

[MrsHammer]

I have been concerned with these topics as well lately. My 11 month old daughter will soon be switching from infant formula to whole milk. I don't drink milk (just never liked the taste), so up until recently, I have been oblivious to milk prices or the controversies regarding antibiotics, hormones, etc. What really got my attention a few months ago was coming across an article claiming that girls as young as 4 years old were hitting puberty and some theories are trying to tie that back to hormones in diary products and meat. Now, I'm not gullable enough to buy into this without any sort of hard facts, but it does make you stop and think about what you are feeding your children. Then, of course, there is the cost. I think I could probably sacrifice a few bucks in other areas to make sure my child gets the best possible nutrition, but I feel for families who may not have as many options and whose children may suffer the consequences.