RBIs - Hamilton, Griffey, Dunn - ORG

[Krawhitham]

Originally Posted by Original Message

Josh Hamilton: 82 RBIs in 334 at-bats
Griffey and Dunn: 85 RBIs in 547 at-bats

Originally Posted by KronoRed

Talk about misrepresenting numbers.

Not really

RISP

Dunn = .209
JR = .212
Hobbs = .323

[RedsFanInBama]

I'm not sure why people are hung up on Hamilton so much still. I think everyone pretty much concedes he is a better player than Dunn or Griffey, don't need any numbers to validate that argument.

We couldn't have gotten Volquez for Dunn or Griffey. It took Hamilton, and quite frankly, I'm thrilled with the trade.

[GoReds33]

I wasn't overly happy at the time, basically from not seeing Volquez pitch. I thought we were trading the best "talent" in baseball for the best prospect in a lousy system. Needless to say I'm happy to be proven wrong.

[ChatterRed]

.......and then there's always the relapse factor.

Odell Thurman and Chris Henry were pretty good football players too and we all know the rest of that story.......

[bgwilly31]

Originally Posted by ChatterRed

.......and then there's always the relapse factor.
....

how long will you harp on this?

7yrs from now im sure chatterRED will still be saying. Well there's that relapse factor.

The guy is not going to relapse. Get over it, and quite trying to use as some type of justification.


Also i think were all still early on trying to decide if this was a good trade.

Volquez is having a BREAK out first half of the year. His last two starts have been far from dominate, i would hold my tounge on volquez until the scouts and the hitters really get a feel for him.

If volquez ends up being another A.Harang type pitcher. Good ace for the reds but not a pennant team. And hamilton ends up becoming a future HOF. Then this trade could be the worst trade we see in our lifetime.

[levydl]

Originally Posted by bgwilly31

how long will you harp on this?

7yrs from now im sure chatterRED will still be saying. Well there's that relapse factor.

The guy is not going to relapse. Get over it, and quite trying to use as some type of justification.


Also i think were all still early on trying to decide if this was a good trade.

Volquez is having a BREAK out first half of the year. His last two starts have been far from dominate, i would hold my tounge on volquez until the scouts and the hitters really get a feel for him.

If volquez ends up being another A.Harang type pitcher. Good ace for the reds but not a pennant team. And hamilton ends up becoming a future HOF. Then this trade could be the worst trade we see in our lifetime.

If Hamilton ends up a HOFer, he'll probably have to have several Barry Bonds type seasons. Not many HOFers had 19 HRs and 49 RBIs when they were 26. Highly unlikely.

And why would being a pennant team only matter for Volquez? What if Hamilton never wins a pennant either?

[bgwilly31]

Originally Posted by levydl

If Hamilton ends up a HOFer, he'll probably have to have several Barry Bonds type seasons. Not many HOFers had 19 HRs and 49 RBIs when they were 26. Highly unlikely.

And why would being a pennant team only matter for Volquez? What if Hamilton never wins a pennant either?

you dont comprehend very well.

It meant if volquez is not talented enough to be an ACE for a "good team" But be an ace for a avg. to terrible team. Like A.harang type.

Im not sure A.harang could go be an ace for redsox, yankees, cubs, whitesox do you?

This is all how the end UP. Not right now. Right now volquez could go be an ace for those teams. 2 yrs from now nobody knows.

[Lockdwn11]

Originally Posted by bgwilly31

you dont comprehend very well.

It meant if volquez is not talented enough to be an ACE for a "good team" But be an ace for a avg. to terrible team. Like A.harang type.

Im not sure A.harang could go be an ace for redsox, yankees, cubs, whitesox do you?

This is all how the end UP. Not right now. Right now volquez could go be an ace for those teams. 2 yrs from now nobody knows.

So are you saying that every team has a ace? That isn't the case at all with out looking it up I would say that there are 10-15 Aces in the league if that. Just because you maybe your teams best pitcher does not make you an Ace Aaron Harang is a Ace I know he hasn't pitched like it lately but his track record says that he is and will bounce back very soon. You say that Volquez last two starts have been far from dominate and you are right but his last was far from bad as well . Have you seen Hamiltons stats from the last two weeks? Far from dominate as well. Maybe he is comming back to earth here is his line for the 14 games .


G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB IBB SO HBP SH SF GDP SB CS BA OBP SLG OPS

14 60 48 5 12 1 0 0 8 10 1 10 1 0 1 1 2 0 .250 .383 .271 .654


Over the last month including the four days of July Hamiltons OPS is 785. The guy you love to hate in that same time frame 810 . I am in no way saying that you know who is the better player at this point in his career I'm just saying Volquez isn't the only one who hasn't been dominate as of late.

[levydl]

Originally Posted by bgwilly31

you dont comprehend very well.

It meant if volquez is not talented enough to be an ACE for a "good team" But be an ace for a avg. to terrible team. Like A.harang type.

Im not sure A.harang could go be an ace for redsox, yankees, cubs, whitesox do you?

This is all how the end UP. Not right now. Right now volquez could go be an ace for those teams. 2 yrs from now nobody knows.

Have you seen Harang's record against the Cubs' ace? And yes, I think Harang is better than the White Sox' Buerle, Contreras, and Vasquez. No Harang isn't Josh Beckett or maybe Wang, but he's been a top 10-15 pitcher over the last few years. Put him on the Yankees or Red Sox and he's a stud.

And you don't express yourself very well.

[Lockdwn11]

Originally Posted by bgwilly31

you dont comprehend very well.

It meant if volquez is not talented enough to be an ACE for a "good team" But be an ace for a avg. to terrible team. Like A.harang type.

Im not sure A.harang could go be an ace for redsox, yankees, cubs, whitesox do you?

This is all how the end UP. Not right now. Right now volquez could go be an ace for those teams. 2 yrs from now nobody knows.

This reminds me of a old saying....

Never argue with an idiot. They bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.

[757690]

Originally Posted by bgwilly31

how long will you harp on this?

7yrs from now im sure chatterRED will still be saying. Well there's that relapse factor.

The guy is not going to relapse. Get over it, and quite trying to use as some type of justification.


Also i think were all still early on trying to decide if this was a good trade.

Volquez is having a BREAK out first half of the year. His last two starts have been far from dominate, i would hold my tounge on volquez until the scouts and the hitters really get a feel for him.

If volquez ends up being another A.Harang type pitcher. Good ace for the reds but not a pennant team. And hamilton ends up becoming a future HOF. Then this trade could be the worst trade we see in our lifetime.

First lesson everyone learns on the first day of Baseball 101.

Pitching wins Championships.

Power hitters are easy to find, power pitchers with a devastating change up are near impossible.

And how in the world can you say that trading a HOF OF for an ace of the staff is "the worst trade we see in our lifetime." Having Josh Hamilton on this team without Volquez will not win any championships.

[Ghosts of 1990]

We must move on, no matter how hard it may seem.