Dusty "Respects" Junior, But Disrespects Logic, Reason, and Numbers...

[Edskin]

I did this last year, but decided to go into more detail this season.

Just how bad of a mistake is Dusty making by continuing to hit Junior 3rd out of "respect?"

Well, the following numbers are quite staggering.

I took all National League teams #3 hitters-- this was determined by the player on each team with the most AB's at that slot.

I then ranked them 1-16 in 5 different categories (Avg, HR, RBI, OBP, SLG)

Here are the rankings in each category....at the end, I then added up each category-- the player with the lowest score was ranked "highest," and on down the list.

Avg.

1. Chipper
2. Pujols
3. Berkman
4. Holliday
5. Guzman
6. Lee
7. Martin
8. Hudson
9. Utley
10. Winn
11. Wright
12. Bay
13. Braun
(tie) Gonzalez
15. Cantu
16. Junior

As a point of reference Cantu is hitting .283, Junior is hitting .240

HR

1. Utley
2. Berkman
(tie) Gonzalez
4. Braun
5. Chipper
6. Pujols
(tie) Bay
8. Wright
9. Lee
(tie) Cantu
11. Holliday
12. Junior
13. Martin
14. Hudson
15. Winn
(tie) Guzman

RBI

1. Gonzalez
2. Berkman
3. Utley
4. Wright
5. Braun
6. Lee
7. Chipper
8. Holliday
(tie) Cantu
10. Pujols
11. Bay
12. Martin
13. Junior
14. Hudson
15. Winn
16. Guzman

OBP

1. Chipper
2. Pujols
3. Berkman
4. Holliday
5. Martin
6. Bay
7. Wright
8. Utley
9. Lee
10. Hudson
11. Winn
12. Gonzalez
13. Junior
14. Guzman
15. Cantu
16. Braun

SLG

1. Berkman
2. Chipper
3. Pujols
4. Utley
5. Holliday
6. Braun
7. Bay
8. Gonzalez
9. Lee
10. Wright
11. Cantu
12. Hudson
13. Martin
14. Guzman
15. Winn
16. Junior

Yep, Ken Griffey Junior is being out-slugged by Christian Guzman, Russell Martin, and Randy Winn

Totals:

1. Berkman (11)
2. Chipper (16)
3. Pujols (23)
4. Utley (25)
5. Holliday (32)
6. Gonzalez (36)
7. Lee (39)
8. Wright (40)
9. Bay (43)
10. Braun (44)
11. Martin (50)
12. Hudson (58)
(tie) Cantu (58)
14. Guzman (64)
15. Winn (66)
16. Junior (70)

Now, THAT is respect!!

[Homer Bailey]

Wow. I didn't know it was that bad. Everytime I keep thinking about the Reds possibly getting back in this race, I keep thinking about what Dusty Baker is doing to prevent them from doing this. It seriously is disturbing to me that he puts Junior in the 3 hole, which continues to be my biggest problem with Dusty. Part of me keeps saying, it's only for the rest of this year, as Junior will be gone next year, but the other part says, we'll just have someone else for Dusty to miscast or bat high in the order out of "respect." Makes me sick. 2.5 more years of this guy.

[Nugget]

Have you managed to finish your analysis by looking at the statistics versus the rest of the league at every other RED position.

Junior is performing below his own expectations but my guess is he is not the only RED to be in that position.

[VR]

I'll bet you a nickel he's got the highest score of any full time Red (70)

[Edskin]

Originally Posted by Nugget

Have you managed to finish your analysis by looking at the statistics versus the rest of the league at every other RED position.

Junior is performing below his own expectations but my guess is he is not the only RED to be in that position.

I haven't done that, but I let's just say Dunn is a number 5 hitter-- I doubt he'd rank nearly as low as Junior does in comparison to their slots.

No doubt our offense as a whole is unispiring to say the least and Junior is certainly not the only problem.

But he is a HUGE problem. Many people consider the 3 hole to be the most important spot in the lineup-- and the Reds have one of the worst (if not THE worst) #3 hitter in all of baseball.

In the end though, you can't blame Junior for where he bats in the order. Thats up to Dusty.

I honestly wonder if Dusty realizes how bad Junior is...or if he is still blinded by the name on the back of the jersey.

[REDREAD]

In all fairness Edskin, it doesn't matter what Cantu or any other non-Red player is doing.

Dusty can only use the players he has. Among the regulars, Jr is third in OBP (just barely trailing Votto). If you count Harriston as a regular, he's fourth in OBP.

Sure, Jr's power numbers have slipped, but probably every manager in baseball would bat him somewhere between #3 and 5.

I don't think batting Jr one or two slots higher in the lineup than "optimal" is killing this team. Jr isn't a superstar, but he's far from being the only problem this team has.

[redsrule2500]

This is why I'm excited for next year: NO MORE GRIFFEY.

[Will M]

Originally Posted by redsrule2500

This is why I'm excited for next year: NO MORE GRIFFEY.

You subscribe to my wife's theory that the Reds won't win until Jr is gone.

[Spring~Fields]

Originally Posted by Homer Bailey

Wow. I didn't know it was that bad. Everytime I keep thinking about the Reds possibly getting back in this race, I keep thinking about what Dusty Baker is doing to prevent them from doing this. It seriously is disturbing to me that he puts Junior in the 3 hole, which continues to be my biggest problem with Dusty. Part of me keeps saying, it's only for the rest of this year, as Junior will be gone next year, but the other part says, we'll just have someone else for Dusty to miscast or bat high in the order out of "respect." Makes me sick. 2.5 more years of this guy.

You have to seriously consider what the fans of Chicago and San Francisco saw and complained about and now in Cincinnati is exponentially increased daily with Dusty Baker making the decisions, Baker certainly isn't getting much out of this team. So can we assume it will take a 1-8 order of league average or better, and a payroll of over a hundred million to put Dusty back on top again despite his decisions?

How long can Jocketty and Castellini watch these charades as they play the crowd and the losing stops now card with absolutely no substance to support their positions? Except another losing season.

[westofyou]

Originally Posted by Spring~Fields

You have to seriously consider what the fans of Chicago and San Francisco saw and complained about and now in Cincinnati is exponentially increased daily with Dusty Baker making the decisions, Baker certainly isn't getting much out of this team. So can we assume it will take a 1-8 order of league average or better, and a payroll of over a hundred million to put Dusty back on top again despite his decisions?

How long can Jocketty and Castellini watch these charades as they play the crowd and the losing stops now card with absolutely no substance to support their positions? Except another losing season.

I lived in San Francisco for all of Dusty's tenure there, the whining here about his managing is louder than bombs when compared to what they said about him in the ten plus years he managed the Giants.

It's as if he's the first ex player manager who doesn't read BP and have a dog eared copy of the first Baseball Abstract.

[Spring~Fields]

Originally Posted by westofyou

I lived in San Francisco for all of Dusty's tenure there, the whining here about his managing is louder than bombs when compared to what they said about him in the ten plus years he managed the Giants.

It's as if he's the first ex player manager who doesn't read BP and have a dog eared copy of the first Baseball Abstract.

[Marc D]

Jr hurts us more with his statuesque defense in RF more than he does with his diminished offensive skills.

If BP or Votto can't get to something in short RF its going to drop. Sharp singles to his right or left become doubles. It adds up and it kills us imo.

[flyer85]

Jr shouldn't hit 3rd ... but it isn't going to change with Dusty at the helm.

[red-in-la]

Welcome to the party boyz.....

[Spring~Fields]

Originally Posted by Edskin

Just how bad of a mistake is Dusty making by continuing to hit Junior 3rd out of "respect?"

Well, the following numbers are quite staggering.

Excellent question one that the alert have been asking since April as the one and two run losses piled up taking the Reds out of contention as Castellini and Jocketty set by throwing their towels.