If the Reds Continue to Lose, will Jay Bruce be the next at fault?

[EddieMilner]

WVRedsFan on the ORG wrote this:

And they will IMHO. Dunn, Kearns, Bruce, etc. were supposed to be the next wave of the BRM and it didn't happen for two of them for obvious reasons (it was the pitching, stupid ), but most enjoyed Dunn's blasts and most liked him until the losing continued. Jay Bruce faces the same thing if the losing continues during his tenure. Bruce could hit .300, hit 40 HR and drive in 120 and if the Reds don't win and his performance demands a big salary, He will be the goat after every strikeout and flubbed play in right. If the Reds win, he is the hero. That's the way it is.

I wish Adam well, but only when he plays all teams but the Reds. I'll take no glory in him hitting 1.000 against us, but I fear he might.

The part in Bold I disagree with quite a bit. I feel that if Dunn hit .300 and had 120 RBIs a year, he would have been the toast of the town. Not that I agree with the bad wrap Adam Dunn received...
It seems he is stating that no matter how good Jay Bruce is, if the team is bad and Bruce is making a high salary then the fans will hate him. I just don't see that as being a reality.
The reality with Dunn is/was he doesn't hit for a high BA, he struck out a ton, walked a ton, hit a ton of HRs. The casual fan (most baseball fans) check the BA, HR, and RBIs to declare the worth of a player.
Hopefully we never find the answer and Jay Bruce mashes the ball for the next 10 years and the Reds have a great team.

[Griffey012]

Phillips will be the first goat. And I'm not talkin about Andy.

[freestyle55]

It will be Brandon Phillips next year (more for being the defacto leader, not for salary reasons yet), and Jay Bruce after that.

The average Cincinnati fan will never realize that baseball is a team sport, and that one person is not the reason that a team is bad...

[redsbuckeye]

One need only look at Alex Rodriguez to see that salary is what makes you the goat.

[tommycash]

Originally Posted by redsbuckeye

One need only look at Alex Rodriguez to see that salary is what makes you the goat.

I think that is mostly true. I think that was a strong argument against Dunn and Griffey here in Cincy (besides injuries with Griff)

[markymark69]

Originally Posted by Griffey012

Phillips will be the first goat. And I'm not talkin about Andy.

Don't forget about Encarnacion, if he is still with the team and of course Dusty.

[redsbuckeye]

In the end, the person who has the most tangible effect on the team's success, IMO is the general manager, followed closely by the owner or whoever is footing the bill. Way down the list is the manager, who probably has about as much effect as a specialist reliever. In between are the position players and starters.

The thing about managers is that, so long as they manage the game right, their contribution can always be maximized.

[tommycash]

There is a pattern that exists before Bruce could be blamed. First on that list is Dusty, then Jocketty, then Castellini, then BPhil, then Harang/Arroyo (performance based), then maybe Bruce. But is Bruce pulls out Ted Williams like numbers (I only make the reference to Williams because he was a great player who did not win, maybe you can compare him with Billy Williams or Carl Yaz if that makes you feel better). Bruce will be under a lot of scrutiny next year, if he can't produce like he was supposed to.

[Orenda]

I think the goat would be player development. The reason I didn't like Dunn was because he was never able to develop into a complete player, nor did it seem that the Reds personnel seemed to bother to address it. Also, look at Homer Bailey; he was a guy who was allowed to shoot through the minors without being able to locate a quality off-speed pitch. In regards to Jay Bruce, if he can drive in 120 rbi's in the middle of the order then you have yourself a keeper. And please stop throwing out HR totals would you. I don't care if he hits 20-40 hrs, as long as he can get on base (improve plate discipline) learn to use all fields, drive in runs, and be a solid base runner. It would also be great if he played above average defense. As for Brandon Phillips, given his overall ability I think he's solid but he's not a middle of the order hitter, his lack of plate discipline should not let him hit any higher than 5th. EE is streaky at the plate and we all know his defense hasn't improved since he's been here. The only position player who has been solid this year has been Joey Votto, and even he seems raw at 1st base at times. Particularly, when he positions his body to receive a low throw. I think a few of Edwin's errors were balls that Votto should have been able to pick off the bounce. So between, Votto, EE, Phillips, and Bruce, (Dunn before them) all have the tools to be solid all around players, if they don't work to become that and if the Reds coaches and staff cant facilitate that then they are both to blame. I think it’s ironic that Mario Soto is having all this success working with prospects and he's not even a full-timer with the Reds. Future concerns, Neftali Soto and Juan Francisco’s walk rates, as well as improper player positioning. What is the point in keeping Frazier, Soto, Waring, and Francisco at the same position? It would seem wise to figure out which two have the best chance at staying at 3rd and moving the others to a position they can contribute, instead of waiting until they reach the high minors with no position.

[OUReds]

There is a long tradition of Cincinnati heaping scorn on their best player that stretches all the way back to Ted K, through Frank Robinson, skipping the BRM, then running through Eric Davis to the present.

Maybe Jay Bruce will be different, but given that he isn't a Pete Rose clone, I don't see why he should be.

[gedred69]

Jay Bruce at just recently 21 years of age, has already made adjustments to the adjustments pitchers made to neutralize his bat. As long as he doesn't fall in love with the long ball like Dunn did,--- (Remember Dunn came up as a HITTER, who happened to hit HRs),----Bruce should be just fine.

Unless holding court with the array of Bimbos that flock to these young studs distracts him too much. That scene has short-circuited a lot of potentially great careers.

[Ghosts of 1990]

I know exactly what this guy is saying. Dunn was constantly blamed for our failures and he was a great player that produced for us.

The same will be for Bruce. You just have to hope we finally get it right, but I have my doubts.