Who is Redszone's #15 prospect?

[OnBaseMachine]

Redszone's Top Prospects

Prospect #1 - Yonder Alonso
Prospect #2 - Todd Frazier
Prospect #3 - Neftali Soto
Prospect #4 - Drew Stubbs
Prospect #5 - Chris Valaika
Prospect #6 - Kyle Lotzkar
Prospect #7 - Daryl Thompson
Prospect #8 - Juan Francisco
Prospect #9 - Juan Duran
Prospect #10 - Chris Dickerson
Prospect #11 - Devin Mesoraco
Prospect #12 - Danny Dorn
Prospect #13 - Yorman Rodriguez
Prospect #14 - Zach Stewart

[OnBaseMachine]

I went with Josh Roenicke slightly ahead of Ramon Ramirez. I actually debated on putting Ramirez at #15 and slotting Roenicke in at #16. I think Ramirez could develop into a league average starter but there's also a chance he ends up in the bullpen. If that happens, Roenicke has the higher ceiling IMO.

[Grande Donkey]

Give me Juan Carlos

[mace]

I know that Hanigan's an unsexy vote, but he's a guy who hit well at AAA, gets on base, has good plate discipline, is respected for his defense and by all accounts calls a good game. With decent catchers so hard to come by, that's a heck of a package.

[Kc61]

Roenicke should have been about 8 or 9 so maybe he'll get 15.

[JayBruceFan]

Heisey

[fearofpopvol1]

Ramirez. I think he could fill in the #5 spot in the rotation for 2009 and very easily put up an ERA in the 4.50-4.75 range, possibly better. That's not too shabby for a #5 starter (and for the Reds rotation no less)!

[HokieRed]

Hildenbrandt. Ceiling matters.

[OnBaseMachine]

I'm bored. Just for kicks:

[Mario-Rijo]

I gotta go with Ramirez here. Roenicke still has a ways to go with his command/control, so while his ceiling is much higher his odds aren't. I like him but I like a few better.

Might I add OBM that you consider replacing Jukich with Wood. Wood has the higher ceiling, 4 years younger and pitched decent at the same level Jukich did better but didn't blow anyone away himself. I understand everyones willingness to think Wood may not make it but he still is only 21 and still is a solid prospect.

[Kc61]

Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo

I gotta go with Ramirez here. Roenicke still has a ways to go with his command/control, so while his ceiling is much higher his odds aren't. I like him but I like a few better.

.

Interesting comment about command/control since Ramirez had a 3.81 walk rate at AAA last year, quite a bit higher than Roenicke's 3.23. Roenicke also had a better strikeout rate, his was 9.92. (Ramirez 8.43). Roenicke allowed only 4 home runs in a full minor league season last year.

Ramirez' success last year was his low number of hits allowed, whether that was good fortune and good defense we'll find out presumably. Of the two, Roenicke is a better prospect IMO, has the frame and stuff to be a big time reliever. He got a late start, just a question of a bit more polish.

When you look at Roenicke's physical ability, frame, and success in the high minors, he projects better than many of the guys already selected and should be considered a top ten prospect in this system.

[Mario-Rijo]

Originally Posted by Kc61

Interesting comment about command/control since Ramirez had a 3.81 walk rate at AAA last year, quite a bit higher than Roenicke's 3.23. Roenicke also had a better strikeout rate, his was 9.92. (Ramirez 8.43). Roenicke allowed only 4 home runs in a full minor league season last year.

Ramirez' success last year was his low number of hits allowed, whether that was good fortune and good defense we'll find out presumably. Of the two, Roenicke is a better prospect IMO, has the frame and stuff to be a big time reliever. He got a late start, just a question of a bit more polish.

When you look at Roenicke's physical ability, frame, and success in the high minors, he projects better than many of the guys already selected and should be considered a top ten prospect in this system.

I'm basing it more on what I seen at the big league level and admittedly didn't really look at the #'s too deeply. That said I will admit that the small sample of each I seen wasn't enough to make the best decision. But here's the rub IMO Ramirez has 2 solid pitches Roenicke just 1 to this point. So Roenicke's #'s are a function of using 1 dominating pitch on AAA guys, while Ramirez doesn't have that dominating pitch he has "pitched" his way to his #'s with 2 solid pitches.

Roenicke still has a far higher ceiling but until he can at least get 1 more pitch working for him he is what he is, a guy we have all seen before who has that dominating pitch, nothing to go with it and never finds it.

[Kc61]

Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo

Roenicke still has a far higher ceiling but until he can at least get 1 more pitch working for him he is what he is, a guy we have all seen before who has that dominating pitch, nothing to go with it and never finds it.

Roenicke as someone who "never finds it."

Roenicke has been highly effective at every level. BA voted him the best relief candidate in High A FSL in 2007. He has a big time fastball which puts him in the class of potential top late inning relievers and has harnessed it well in the upper minors.

He's more than potential, he's performance. Take the time to look at the numbers -- he's advanced quicky and done well at every level.

Very few relievers have two great pitches. It's just a question of knowing when to go with the secondary pitch and when to stick to the fastball. Roenicke is almost there. I saw his September callup, he didn't seem comfortable and didn't get much of a chance. I think those few innings are meaningless.

I can see folks putting him behind Lotzkar and Stewart -- I think it's close and don't necessarily agree, but I can see it. But behind Maloney and Ramirez, nah.

[dougdirt]

Carlos Fisher. Big time groundball guy, plenty of strikeouts with good stuff.

[camisadelgolf]

I went with Cozart again. The only question is if he'll hit enough to be a starting shortstop. A starting shortstop with a .750 OPS and superb defense is worth more than a middle reliever or setup man with a 3.50 ERA, in my opinion.