Drew Stubbs

[reds44]

.240/.275/.285/.559
.205/.238/.344/.582

Willy Tavers and Corey Patterson, the whipping boys of redszone (and rightfully so) the last two season. Dusty and Jocketty would brutally ripped for having them on the team, and batting them leadoff.

I understand here at redzone we all love our prospects, but the fact that it's nearly silent how bad Drew Stubbs has been is surprising.

.176/.287/.257/.544

Drew Stubbs has actually managed to be worse than both of them, offensively. It really should come as a surprise to nobody that he's been bad, because he wasn't any good in the minors.

Stubbs needs to be sent to AAA, and try to figure something out to cutdown on his strikeouts with his swing. He doesn't hit for any power, so there's no reason for him to strikeout as much as he does.

I have no idea if Heisey is better, and he may not be, but something has to be changed at this point.

[OnBaseMachine]

Originally Posted by reds44

I understand here at redzone we all love our prospects, but the fact that it's nearly silent how bad Drew Stubbs has been is surprising.

Silent? Really? There's two Drew Stubbs related threads on the first page alone. Stubbs is one of, if not the most bashed player on Redszone.

BTW, I'd drop him in the lineup before I'd send him to AAA.

[Wheelhouse]

Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine

Silent? Really? There's two Drew Stubbs related threads on the first page alone. Stubbs is one of, if not the most bashed player on Redszone.

BTW, I'd drop him in the lineup before I'd send him to AAA.

I think he needs to go down. He's not having a bad stretch, his approach to the game is wrong. He might get some decent coaching in the minors.

[corkedbat]

It wouldn't shock me to see Stubbs go on a bit of a hot streak sometime soon. If he prolongs it to a couple of weeks and starts to draw some interest, I'd be ready to "sell high" on him a a moment's notice.

[Kc61]

Originally Posted by corkedbat

It wouldn't shock me to see Stubbs go on a bit of a hot streak sometime soon. If he prolongs it to a couple of weeks and starts to draw some interest, I'd be ready to "sell high" on him a a moment's notice.

LOL, glad you used the quotation marks around sell high.

The idea that the Reds can sell high on Stubbs this year when he had a 32 at bat hitless streak, is currently hitting .637 OPS, is coming off a two hundred strikeout season, and has about a .670 OPS over his last 900 plate appearances is a little remote.

Maybe, if he gets real hot, the Reds can "sell medium."

[mth123]

Originally Posted by Kc61

LOL, glad you used the quotation marks around sell high.

The idea that the Reds can sell high on Stubbs this year when he had a 32 at bat hitless streak, is currently hitting .637 OPS, is coming off a two hundred strikeout season, and has about a .670 OPS over his last 900 plate appearances is a little remote.

Maybe, if he gets real hot, the Reds can "sell medium."

Don't forget that he's arb eligible after the season. Even with those horrible numbers, he's going to get a decent raise. If the Reds can't include Stubbs in a deal, they'll probobly keep him around in 2013, but after 2013, when he's second year arb eligible, I'd say he won't be worth his arb money and will be a strong non-tender candidate. I don't think any team dealing for Stubbs will be viewing him as a guy with "3 years of control" so expectations on a return should be fairly low. He can be a guyto package with a minor leaguer for a better CF. The team acquiring him will look at him as a place holder for the guy they deal to the Reds and as a lottery ticket. The real trade target from their persepctive will be whoever Stubbs is packaged with.

[_Sir_Charles_]

I'm not so sure. Stubbs absolutely crushed the ball this series. How many did he smash to the wall in center?

3 games in Houston, 4 for 9 with 3 walks
3 games in St.Louis, 1 for 12 with a double off the wall and 4 smashed to the wall in center

He's pretty far from one of our biggest worries IMO.

[nate]

Originally Posted by reds44

I understand here at redzone we all love our prospects, but the fact that it's nearly silent how bad Drew Stubbs has been is surprising.

This is totally untrue.

[Slyder]

Originally Posted by reds44

.240/.275/.285/.559
.205/.238/.344/.582

Willy Tavers and Corey Patterson, the whipping boys of redszone (and rightfully so) the last two season. Dusty and Jocketty would brutally ripped for having them on the team, and batting them leadoff.

I understand here at redzone we all love our prospects, but the fact that it's nearly silent how bad Drew Stubbs has been is surprising.

.176/.287/.257/.544

Drew Stubbs has actually managed to be worse than both of them, offensively. It really should come as a surprise to nobody that he's been bad, because he wasn't any good in the minors.

Stubbs needs to be sent to AAA, and try to figure something out to cutdown on his strikeouts with his swing. He doesn't hit for any power, so there's no reason for him to strikeout as much as he does.

I have no idea if Heisey is better, and he may not be, but something has to be changed at this point.

Even struggling and getting a bit unlucky he's still better than the smucks we had in CF that shall remain nameless. Even without the luck he's still finding 1b MORE than those two who shall remain nameless did. Give him time at one point one of the aforementioned smucks was leading the team in hitting we know how that ended.

Stubbs is one of the most cross examined guys on this team not because of him but because of who he isnt (he too shall remain nameless for those who are tired of the debates). Will he ever be even Good Farny (Freel) with the bat who knows thats something for another thread. He's young and unless you want to top load the lineup, with Votto, leadoff hitters are few across the league not just with us.

I do not think that Hanigan gets the playing time or would be as good at the top of the order just because then teams have to come after him, batting 7th or 8th he can take advantage of teams playing odds and giving us an extra baserunner and get the lineup turned over quicker.

[Benihana]

I've been as vocal of a Stubbs basher as anyone this side of TRF, but at this point with Dickerson on the DL I'm not sure what else we can really do. As others have said, he MUST be dropped in the lineup at a minimum. I would also be rotating Nix in CF to play against righties, and if Stubbs doesn't pull his act together soon, I'd give Heisey a shot.

As I've said a dozen times, when he doesn't punish pitchers with power, they are going to come at him (as they have done.) The plate discipline he showed in the minors really doesn't mean much if he doesn't have the power to scare major league pitchers away.

The guy simply didn't hit in the minors, and he isn't hitting now. I'd try dropping him to 7th in the order for the next week or two, then give Heisey and Nix a shot to claim the job if things don't improve.

[Slyder]

Originally Posted by Benihana

I've been as vocal of a Stubbs basher as anyone this side of TRF, but at this point with Dickerson on the DL I'm not sure what else we can really do. As others have said, he MUST be dropped in the lineup at a minimum. I would also be rotating Nix in CF to play against righties, and if Stubbs doesn't pull his act together soon, I'd give Heisey a shot.

As I've said a dozen times, when he doesn't punish pitchers with power, they are going to come at him (as they have done.) The plate discipline he showed in the minors really doesn't mean much if he doesn't have the power to scare major league pitchers away.

The guy simply didn't hit in the minors, and he isn't hitting now. I'd try dropping him to 7th in the order for the next week or two, then give Heisey and Nix a shot to claim the job if things don't improve.

Ive given up on seeing Stubbs lower in the order as long as Dusty Baker is here for whatever reason speed no matter how good of a hitter must bat leadoff... obp be darned. Nix isnt going to improve the team much, Nix is what he is. If youre going to give someone else a shot its got to be Heisey. I like Dickerson he cannot for the life of him stay on the field and stay healthy. We don't have a true hitter in CF until someone takes the bull by the horns and show they can do it consistantly and stay healthy in the process.

[Screwball]

Originally Posted by Benihana

As I've said a dozen times, when he doesn't punish pitchers with power, they are going to come at him (as they have done.) The plate discipline he showed in the minors really doesn't mean much if he doesn't have the power to scare major league pitchers away.

Despite not showing any power this season (.257 SLG, 0.81 IsoP) and pitchers coming at him, Stubbs still has an excellent .111 IsoD (Votto, for example, has an IsoD of .122 in '10), so clearly the walks haven't dried up. It's not really a matter of his plate discipline not working at ML level, but rather it's a contact issue he's struggling with. Like RMR said, it's an absolute necessity for him to make more contact in order to be productive and ultimately, sustain a ML career.

[Caveat Emperor]

Originally Posted by Screwball

Despite not showing any power this season (.257 SLG, 0.81 IsoP) and pitchers coming at him, Stubbs still has an excellent .111 IsoD (Votto, for example, has an IsoD of .122 in '10), so clearly the walks haven't dried up. It's not really a matter of his plate discipline not working at ML level, but rather it's a contact issue he's struggling with. Like RMR said, it's an absolute necessity for him to make more contact in order to be productive and ultimately, sustain a ML career.

I wouldn't be adverse to Stubbs attempting to bunt a little more frequently. Anything to get him on base, because his out-machine routine isn't doing the offense any favors.

Unfortunately, unless Stubbs can get his BA up to around .250-.260, the team will probably have to go out and address the CF problem in FA this offseasn.

[CTA513]

You can send him down but I wouldn't expect much from the guys in AAA since nobody seems to be hitting.

[flyer85]

the difference is simply this (this is in no way an endorsement of Stubbs), Patterson and Taveras had already established who they were by the time they got to Cincinnati. Everyone knew what was coming, with Stubbs there is some hope, even if it is small.