why the Reds should trade Ryan Hanigan

[Will M]

Conventional wisdom is that Mes will be the Reds catcher next year with Hanigan as the 2nd catcher. Ramon will either 1) play out the year with the Reds if the team stays in contention or 2) could be dealt this year if the Reds fall back. Even though Mes is tearing up AAA folks think 'well we can't exactly trade Ramon now. even if we could get value for him he is too important to the 2011 team'. ok. how about this one? there are several teams (SF & PIttsburgh for example) that are a bit desperate for a catcher. the Reds could trade Hanigan instead of Ramon. lets assume that the trade is a decent one and we get value back that can help. Mes gets called up now and takes Hanigan's place. The super 2 deadline has likely passed so thats not a concern. The team gets an improvement (Mes > Hanigan) but gets to keep Ramon's veteran prescence for the 2011 pennant race. After the season the team can decide what to do about the 2nd catcher for 2012. If Mes looks like he is ready to play 130 games then they can get a cheap backup. If Mes seems to need a bit more help maybe they resign Ramon on the cheap. The downside to this scenario is that if Mes struggles then we lose Hanigan for 2012. I say its time to take a little more risk, think outside the box, do something a bit less super duper ultra conservative. Trading Hanigan could be a win win. A win in that we could get a nice return in the trade due to certain teams really needing help & a 2nd win in that Mes is likely better than Hanigan right now.

[Ron Madden]

I would love to see Devon Mesoraco starting behind the plate for the Reds in 2012.

I'd also love to see Ryan Hanigan splitinng time with him as the number two catcher.

[PuffyPig]

There is a reason why "conventional wisdom" is conventional wisdom.

Going into next season without a back up catcher in the bag is unwise.

Hannigan is, at worse, a very good back up.

No reason to throw that out the window.

Exactly what type of player would you expect to get that could help us this year?

[Will M]

Originally Posted by PuffyPig

There is a reason why "conventional wisdom" is conventional wisdom.

Going into next season without a back up catcher in the bag is unwise.

Hannigan is, at worse, a very good back up.

No reason to throw that out the window.

Exactly what type of player would you expect to get that could help us this year?

I am pretty bad at predicting a player's trade value. I'd prefer a player that could help the 2011 team as opposed to a prospect. I certainly don't expect a TOR starter in return. However, maybe there is a team with an outfield surplus that needs a catcher.

[PuffyPig]

Originally Posted by Will M

I am pretty bad at predicting a player's trade value. I'd prefer a player that could help the 2011 team as opposed to a prospect. I certainly don't expect a TOR starter in return. However, maybe there is a team with an outfield surplus that needs a catcher.

OF surplus is what we have. You won't get a better OF for Hannigan than what we have currently in the majors and minors. Do you think we'd get someone better than Alonso?

[Reds1]

I wouldn't just trade him to trade him, but catcher is a position of strenght and if it brings the right person I would probably trade him, but there is no guarantees in Mes. so there is risk to trading anyone on the big squad.

[mbgrayson]

FWIW, Devin Mesoraco currently leads the International League in OPS (.967). It will soon be time for him to come to Cincinnati and see how he does. At least a September 'cup of coffee'.

I prefer that the Reds trade Ramon Hernandez. My hunch is that the Reds think that way too, since he is on a one year contract, and Hanigan is on the first year of a three year contract.

Ryan Hanigan is 30 years old (turns 31 this August). This is currently in his fifth season with the Reds. Hanigan is earning $450 K this year, $1.2 million next year, and $2 million in 2013. Hanigan's number are down this year. He is currently hitting .258/.358/.328 for an OPS of .686. However, month by month, he has been improving, and has been much hotter in June than in April. However, to the degree that the numbers matter to other teams, he won't be as attractive as Ramon.

Ramon Hernandez is now 35 years old, and this is already his 13th season in MLB, and his 3rd year with the Reds. Ramon is earning a salary of $3 million this season, and is not under contract for next year. Ramon's numbers this year are quite good: .316/.374/.526 for an OPS of .900. His numbers make him a good 'sell high' candidate.

I think that the salary will matter to the Reds. By trading Ramon, they can afford to take on much more salary this season than they could by trading Hanigan. Ramon also has experience playing in the AL, and would be likely to make a decent adjustment to that league.

I do agree that there will be some serious reluctance to make a trade. How much value can we expect for a 35 year old catcher not under contract for next year? What will it do to 'team chemistry' to trade a well liked veteran away in the middle of the season? How important is is to have a native spanish speaker catch for Cueto, Volquez, Chapman, Cordero, etc...?

Walt will have to think carefully and make the right decision here. My guess is that he won't trade Ramon unless he gets a good offer that would really help the Reds. I don't think it is likely that we get a TOR starter. Why would any team in playoff contention trade a solid starter for a 35 year old catcher? I see us getting a LF or SS that is about the same age. Ramon to the Dodgers for Furcal? Maybe....Something like that.

However, if we keep him through 2011, offer him arbitration, and then lose him after the season, with his numbers this year he may well be a type A free agent, giving us two compensation picks next June. The top 20% of players at each positional grouping are labeled as Type A players, and if those players are free agents, they are designated "Type A Free Agents."

[I(heart)Freel]

Originally Posted by mbgrayson

FWIW, Devin Mesoraco currently leads the International League in OPS (.967). It will soon be time for him to come to Cincinnati and see how he does. At least a September 'cup of coffee'.

I prefer that the Reds trade Ramon Hernandez. My hunch is that the Reds think that way too, since he is on a one year contract, and Hanigan is on the first year of a three year contract.

Ryan Hanigan is 30 years old (turns 31 this August). This is currently in his fifth season with the Reds. Hanigan is earning $450 K this year, $1.2 million next year, and $2 million in 2013. Hanigan's number are down this year. He is currently hitting .258/.358/.328 for an OPS of .686. However, month by month, he has been improving, and has been much hotter in June than in April. However, to the degree that the numbers matter to other teams, he won't be as attractive as Ramon.

Ramon Hernandez is now 35 years old, and this is already his 13th season in MLB, and his 3rd year with the Reds. Ramon is earning a salary of $3 million this season, and is not under contract for next year. Ramon's numbers this year are quite good: .316/.374/.526 for an OPS of .900. His numbers make him a good 'sell high' candidate.

I think that the salary will matter to the Reds. By trading Ramon, they can afford to take on much more salary this season than they could by trading Hanigan. Ramon also has experience playing in the AL, and would be likely to make a decent adjustment to that league.

I do agree that there will be some serious reluctance to make a trade. How much value can we expect for a 35 year old catcher not under contract for next year? What will it do to 'team chemistry' to trade a well liked veteran away in the middle of the season? How important is is to have a native spanish speaker catch for Cueto, Volquez, Chapman, Cordero, etc...?

Walt will have to think carefully and make the right decision here. My guess is that he won't trade Ramon unless he gets a good offer that would really help the Reds. I don't think it is likely that we get a TOR starter. Why would any team in playoff contention trade a solid starter for a 35 year old catcher? I see us getting a LF or SS that is about the same age. Ramon to the Dodgers for Furcal? Maybe....Something like that.

However, if we keep him through 2011, offer him arbitration, and then lose him after the season, with his numbers this year he may well be a type A free agent, giving us two compensation picks next June. The top 20% of players at each positional grouping are labeled as Type A players, and if those players are free agents, they are designated "Type A Free Agents."

I'm of the opinion that the Reds wouldn't offer Ramon arbitration. If he does continue to have this fine year, what would arb pay him? A nice chunk of coin. Ramon would certainly accept arb, and then we have a high priced catcher, an affordable #2 in Hanigan and STILL have Mes in the minors.

I don't see it. So frankly, the only way to leverage Ramon into future help is to trade him. Riding him out this season is fine, but it would not result in any future gain.

[Kc61]

Originally Posted by I(heart)Freel

I don't see it. So frankly, the only way to leverage Ramon into future help is to trade him. Riding him out this season is fine, but it would not result in any future gain.

The future is now.

[mbgrayson]

Originally Posted by I(heart)Freel

I'm of the opinion that the Reds wouldn't offer Ramon arbitration. If he does continue to have this fine year, what would arb pay him? A nice chunk of coin. Ramon would certainly accept arb, and then we have a high priced catcher, an affordable #2 in Hanigan and STILL have Mes in the minors.

I don't see it. So frankly, the only way to leverage Ramon into future help is to trade him. Riding him out this season is fine, but it would not result in any future gain.

You are probably correct. As long as Ramon thinks he can get more from arbitration, that is what he will pick. And if he is a Type A free agent, his marketability in the free agent market will be damaged if he declines arbitration, since he would then cost whichever team signs him a couple draft picks.

[Homer Bailey]

The Reds have "too many catchers" right now (if there is such a thing).

Next year, the Reds will have the right amount of catchers. Trading Hanigan does not make much sense, in my opinion. I think he's worth more to the Reds than what the Reds will receive in return.

[Kc61]

I'm on record as saying the Reds should start to promote AAA guys for the bench. I don't see great value from most of the Reds' bench players, and I think some of the AAA guys can make an impact.

As for Mesoraco, however, on reflection I'd probably wait for September. I wouldn't trade Hernandez or Hanigan right now.

Mes is only 22. Catching is a difficult position. I would rather let him grow at AAA for the rest of the minor league season and then get him up in Sept.

If the Reds fall out of the race, then I feel differently. But right now, let's keep the veteran guys at the major league level, let Devin keep learning at AAA, and pull the trigger when September comes around.

[Benihana]

Originally Posted by Kc61

I'm on record as saying the Reds should start to promote AAA guys for the bench. I don't see great value from most of the Reds' bench players, and I think some of the AAA guys can make an impact.

As for Mesoraco, however, on reflection I'd probably wait for September. I wouldn't trade Hernandez or Hanigan right now.

Mes is only 22. Catching is a difficult position. I would rather let him grow at AAA for the rest of the minor league season and then get him up in Sept.

If the Reds fall out of the race, then I feel differently. But right now, let's keep the veteran guys at the major league level, let Devin keep learning at AAA, and pull the trigger when September comes around.

Generally I tend to agree with this sentiment (promoting AAA guys for the bench) although in this case, I'd say Hanigan, Cairo, and Heisey are among the best backups in the league. Seeing that Hanigan and Heisey make virtually the league minimum, I'd say that's pretty good value.

[penantboundreds]

Could Hanigan net us Brett Gardner?

[Benihana]

Originally Posted by penantboundreds

Could Hanigan net us Brett Gardner?

My guess is no. I doubt the Yankees are looking to trade a starting OF for a catcher like Hanigan, especially when they already have Russ Martin and Jesus Montero (regardless of whether or not he can stay behind the plate).

Hanigan is unlikely to yield the Reds a player that could be a significant upgrade in the majors for this season.