Is 2012 the last year we're stuck with Bakersfield?

[Blitz Dorsey]

What a joke of a high-A affiliate. I think high school teams draw better.

Hopefully 2012 will be the final year the Reds are affiliated with the Bakersfield Blaze. What are the chances of that happening? Where are some possible landing spots? And is there a chance the Carolina Mudcats could move to high-A and reunite with the Reds?

It must be odd for players to get "promoted" from the Dayton Dragons to the Bakersfield Blaze. Talk about one end of the spectrum to the other in terms of fan support/atmosphere.

[cinreds21]

There is a chance, but I don't think it'll happen.

[redsof72]

One of the many reasons why winning IS important in the minor leagues. The teams that win usually get the best developmental situations. Not always...and there are exceptions due to other factors, but when the Reds sit down with potential high-A owners after the 2012 season, the owner is going to want assurances that the team will be competitive.

Nothing against Bakersfield, but geographically, it does not fit well for the Reds. You have an injury to your Double-A catcher on a Monday night, you need to be able to get another catcher in there in time for the Tuesday game. That is one of many factors that go into fitting with an affiliate.

Reds will be trying to hold onto their affiliation in Pensacola and looking for a Carolina League club, I would expect, after the 2012 season.

If Dayton and Billings go out and win again in 2012, it would make it a lot easier to sell to Steve Bryant in Carolina, but based on what he saw this season in Zebulon, they may be starting out behind the eight ball.

[JaxRed]

Here's your glimmer of hope. For 12 years the Braves and the Myrtle Beach Pelicans had an agreement. But then the Pelicans owner became part owner of the Rangers. And in 2010, the Pelicans dropped the Braves and the Pelicans went with Rangers.

Well, Reds had done such a crappy job fielding a High A team, that Lynchburg was WAY happier to dump us and go with Braves.... That's part of how we ended up in Bakersfield.

But in the meantime, Nolan Ryan forced the Pelicans owner out of the Rangers situation, so it would stand to reason that the Pelicans would go back to the Braves. Except they can't.... The Braves (not knowing this would happen), signed a 4 year deal with Lynchburg.

So it's very likely that Pelicans will want to dump Rangers.... and we are available!!!!

[muddie]

Originally Posted by Blitz Dorsey

And is there a chance the Carolina Mudcats could move to high-A and reunite with the Reds?

Just to clarify, the Carolina Mudcats are High A next year, done deal.

However, I agree with cinreds21, I don't believe Cincy will be back here for the reasons stated by redsof72. Good points redsof72, I agree entirely. Had the AA team been more competitive I would have a lot better feeling about 2012.

One scenerio that is probably way too off the chart to consider...

Kinston may come up with an ownership group given another year that could bring the Reds to the Carolina League. I know the Reds want to be in this league, bad. Kinston and Cincy would say yes to each other now! The playing surface in Kinston is excellent. Of course, this would mean someone else would have to leave or enter the CL with Kinston in 2012 to keep the scheduling in tact. Just thinking out loud...

[redsof72]

You look at the Carolina League, and you see it is going to be difficult for the Reds to get in. There just are not going to be many vacancies.

Minor League Baseball has wanted to move two California League franchises into the Carolina League but they have not had facilities to go into. Now they have at least one (Kinston). They need one more to pull it off.

[redsof72]

I will say one thing for the Reds, Muddie. They had a huge talent void at your level this season but they at least tried to go out and get some help. Cook was a guy they had to expect more from. Campbell, Berry, all those pitchers, even Rhinehart, I think, was probably in the Gomes deal just to help Carolina. You were there and saw these guys but it looks like they at least made an effort.

That was a big difference from past seasons, when they would have moved half the team from Bakersfield up, guys who had no business moving up, and would have struggled worse in Carolina than the guys you ended up with.

[muddie]

Originally Posted by redsof72

I will say one thing for the Reds, Muddie. They had a huge talent void at your level this season but they at least tried to go out and get some help. Cook was a guy they had to expect more from. Campbell, Berry, all those pitchers, even Rhinehart, I think, was probably in the Gomes deal just to help Carolina. You were there and saw these guys but it looks like they at least made an effort.

That was a big difference from past seasons, when they would have moved half the team from Bakersfield up, guys who had no business moving up, and would have struggled worse in Carolina than the guys you ended up with.

Pitching is what cost the Mudcats this year. Without checking again I think they finished at 5.14 team ERA. I enjoyed having the Reds here. I'm confident, had we stayed in the SL the Reds would have been here a while.

[JaxRed]

Oooh it's worse than I thought.. The Rangers signed a 4 year deal also. So no Pelicans for us. Here are the Non Cal League High A teams

Frederick Keys Orioles 2014
Kinston Indians Indians 2012
Lynchburg Hillcats Braves 2014
Myrtle Beach Pelicans Rangers 2014
Potomac Nationals Nationals 2012
Salem Red Sox Red Sox N/A (Red Sox own team)
Wilmington Blue Rocks Royals 2012
Winston-Salem Dash White Sox 2014

Bradenton Marauders Pirates N/A (Pirates own team)
Brevard County Brewers 2012
Charlotte Stone Crabs Rays N/A (Rays own team)
Clearwater Threshers Phillies N/A (Phillies own team)
Daytona Cubs Cubs 2012
Dunedin Blue Jays Blue Jays N/A (Blue Jays own team)
Fort Myers Miracle Twins 2012
Jupiter Hammerheads Marlins N/A (Marlins own team)
Lakeland Flying Tigers Tigers N/A (Tigers own team)
Palm Beach Cardinals Cardinals N/A (Cardinals own team)
St. Lucie Mets Mets N/A (Mets own team)
Tampa Yankees Yankees N/A (Yankees own team)


So only teams available in 2012 are

Carolina
Kinston (now Carolina) Indians probably doesn't want us
Potomac Likely to stick with Nationals
Wilmington -Royals

Florida
Daytona - Cubs (unlikely to switch)
Brevard County - Brewers - Heard some rumors about team going to Kissimmee
Ft Meyers - Twins.

It doesn't look good folks...

[muddie]

Originally Posted by JaxRed

Potomac Likely to stick with Nationals

Agreed. Potomac will have a brand new park in 2013.

[redsof72]

Wow. Twins are not going anywhere. That is their spring training site. If I am the Reds, I am looking for an ownership group that would buy a Florida State League franchise.

[crazybob60]

Maybe I missed it being mentioned above, but is there a reason why the Reds High A affiliate is so far away from any of the rest of the minor league affiliates and the Reds geographically? (well with the exception of Billings). Was it done unintentionally just to possibly spread around the 'wealth' for the Reds fanbase?

[muddie]

Originally Posted by crazybob60

Maybe I missed it being mentioned above, but is there a reason why the Reds High A affiliate is so far away from any of the rest of the minor league affiliates and the Reds geographically? (well with the exception of Billings). Was it done unintentionally just to possibly spread around the 'wealth' for the Reds fanbase?

The reason that Cincy is in Bakersfield is that nobody else wanted them that had an expired MLB working agreement. It has nothing to do with sharing the wealth at all. The 'musical chairs' example is perfect.

[Tony Cloninger]

Originally Posted by muddie

The reason that Cincy is in Bakersfield is that nobody else wanted them that had an expired MLB working agreement. It has nothing to do with sharing the wealth at all. The 'musical chairs' example is perfect.

What did this org do to make affiliates mad at them and not want them?

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by Tony Cloninger

What did this org do to make affiliates mad at them and not want them?

It wasn't about being mad at them, it was about Dayton being really bad in 2010 (53-85) and 2009 (59-80). If you knew that was the team you would be getting, would you be lining up to sign them up knowing that you have to sell tickets to make money? From a business perspective, I wouldn't. These minor league franchises are in the business of making money. A lot of these towns want to see the team win. They don't care about the development of the players like we do. They are Bakersfield fans, not Reds fans (or whatever city).