Should Dusty Baker Receive an Extension?

[fearofpopvol1]

I'm not trying to be negative here. It's a fair question to ask after the Reds go up 2-0 on the road and lose the last 3. I don't think it's all his fault by any means, but I also think he made some certainly questionable decisions, some of which were poor IMO.

At any rate...Yay? Nay? Maybe?

[Tom Servo]

No.

[Degenerate39]

No

[JaxRed]

No

[The Snow Chief]

I think the Reds need to go in a different direction. Dusty's loyalty to vets, emphasis on speed rather than OBP, and mismanagement of pitching substitutions has frustrated me.

I know some people disagree, but to me there is no way you start Mike Leake against the Giants in game 4. They owned him all year and we saw in game one that Latos can pitch effectively on short rest. He only pitched four innings and I would have started him vs. Zito and Arroyo against Cain if we lost game four. Arroyo does not throw hard and I think he can be effective on short rest as well. Bottom line, I think we had a better chance winning one of Latos v. Zito/Arroyo v. Cain than we had Leake v. Zito/Latos v. Cain. Starting Leake just about put all of our eggs in the basket of trying to beat Matt Cain twice in one series. That is a tall order.

Game four also showed you how effective a manager is who gives a pitcher the hook early enough when there are indications of a big inning, fatigue, etc. Giants pitching struggled in game 4, but the substitutions created good matchups to limit the damage. Meanwhile, Dusty's substitutions were always one batter too late. That was the difference in the game. Dusty would not have pulled Zito after 2 2/3. If Dusty was managing the Giants, he would have let him stay long enough to give up the big inning. I've seen too many Reds games to think otherwise.

Having Cairo make this roster was absurd. While I do not support Leake starting, I think he would have been better as a 25th player. He is a better hitter than Cairo, a better pinch runner, and could actually eat several innings (like 6 or 7) if there was a blowout on either side. Fraizer was available to backup Rolen or Votto and Valdez could backup Cozart or Phillips. We knew Cairo would not see the field defensively and he brings no bat and no pinch running ability. Leaving him on the roster was blind loyalty to a vet. Not having Leake on the roster may have ended up costing the Reds the NLCS if they would have made it given the decision to DL Cueto (if Cueto could have come back to pitch a game or two in that series). Having Cairo on the roster did not cost the Reds the series, but it very well could have and I don't trust Dusty to make good roster decisions when it comes to replacing a vet with a better performing younger player.

I think Dusty's record in big postseason games (elimination games) speaks for itself. Realistically, we have 2-3 more seasons of this group together in their prime. After that, guys like Latos, Homer, and Cueto likely will hit the FA market and we have a ton of money tied up in Votto, Bruce, and Phillips. You can't expect Arroyo or Ludwick (if he re-signs) to be effective for any more than 2 or 3 more years. If the Reds are going to win a world series with this group, it will need to be within this window. I don't want Dusty making the clutch decisions. It is too important.

I like Dusty as a person and appreciate his effort. I just think it is best if the Reds go in a different direction.

[Vottomatic]

No.

Players manager who brought the team together.

But the decision to stick with Latos against Posey was disastrous. Dusty has a history of sitting and watching the wheels fall off.

[GoReds]

No. Time for some changes.

Rose was able to get the Reds part of the way towards respectability. It wasn't until Pinella came in that everything came together. Thanks for bringing us up Dusty, but he should consider retiring. He's had a great career.

[Brutus]

The guy has been to the playoffs twice in three years and Reds fans want him canned?

Surely you guys remember it was 15 years prior to the previous playoff appearance...

[reds1869]

Originally Posted by Brutus

The guy has been to the playoffs twice in three years and Reds fans want him canned?

Surely you guys remember it was 15 years prior to the previous playoff appearance...

I don't want him canned. I'd prefer he retire.

[fearofpopvol1]

Originally Posted by Brutus

The guy has been to the playoffs twice in three years and Reds fans want him canned?

Surely you guys remember it was 15 years prior to the previous playoff appearance...

How much credit does he get for the players play on the field?

[Brutus]

Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1

How much credit does he get for the players play on the field?

Considering how much respect he has in the clubhouse and considering no manager got there in 15 years, I don't think it's worth chancing it to find out.

The players love him. Shouldn't that be enough? Why bother risking it? I hate to beat a dead horse, but the Red Sox thought they were smart and fired Terry Francona for the same reason(s). They ended up with an inept manager that the entire clubhouse hated.

When you have a good thing, you shouldn't be messing with it.

[fearofpopvol1]

Originally Posted by Brutus

Considering how much respect he has in the clubhouse and considering no manager got there in 15 years, I don't think it's worth chancing it to find out.

The players love him. Shouldn't that be enough? Why bother risking it? I hate to beat a dead horse, but the Red Sox thought they were smart and fired Terry Francona for the same reason(s). They ended up with an inept manager that the entire clubhouse hated.

When you have a good thing, you shouldn't be messing with it.

Do you think the talent level in the last 15 years (namely the pitching) was World Series contention worthy?

[Brutus]

Originally Posted by fearofpopvol1

Do you think the talent level in the last 15 years (namely the pitching) was World Series contention worthy?

It doesn't matter. The Reds are winning games a lot more now than they were earlier and I think it's ignorance to not give the manager some credit for that.

I think the Reds are a better team with Dusty Baker than without him. And that's really all that matters to me at this point.

[The Snow Chief]

Originally Posted by Brutus

The guy has been to the playoffs twice in three years and Reds fans want him canned?

Surely you guys remember it was 15 years prior to the previous playoff appearance...

Come on Brutus. Do you actually think that any manager in baseball past or present could have made the Reds contenders until this ownership group came in and cleaned up the mess that was Cincinnati Reds baseball? We are no longer trotting out Jimmy Haynes or Eric Milton as front of the rotation starters. Dusty is the only manager of the Reds this century who has been given the tools to compete by the front office and GM. You know that.

If you think he is the person to lead this talented group to the promised land over the next couple seasons, fine. However, don't think we're stupid enough to fall for this argument.

[757690]

Originally Posted by The Snow Chief

Come on Brutus. Do you actually think that any manager in baseball past or present could have made the Reds contenders until this ownership group came in and cleaned up the mess that was Cincinnati Reds baseball? .

I can honestly say that none of Boone, Miley and Narron, would have lead this team to 97 wins and a division championship. None of them could have kept the team going after losing Joey Votto for pretty much the second half of the season. Sure this team had talent, but Baker clearly got the best out of it.