Bengals v. Panthers

[Dom Heffner]

Pittsburgh should be collectively embarrassed by how they handed away a game they were dominating today. And the worst part about it was that it followed Michael Vick's whine-fest on "Inside the NFL" about how he isn't appreciated. Amusing considering that he's possibly the most overrated NFL player ever and did a great job confirming that today.

Steel, I didn't watch the game, so help me out here. How does Vick throw for 232 yards and 4 touchdowns and he confirms how overrated he is?

And how does Pittsburgh dominate somebody when they give up 41 points?

Was the officiating that bad? I'm not being a smart-tail, I just watched the game on stattracker, so I honestly have no idea how things looked.

[max venable]

Three costly turnovers by Pittsburgh.

GREAT day for me. Bengals win, Steelers lose, Crumpler and Vick are on my fantasy team (huge stats from both today).

As for the calls, the running into the kicker call was legit. The Cowher timeout was VERY questionable.

[Yachtzee]

1. I think Cowher was tempting fate with that late TO call. It was borderline that he got it in in time, but he got the call. You can't just wait until right when they snap the ball to call your TO or you're going to get burned.

2. Roughing the kicker is a strict liability penalty. You touch the kicker, you get a flag. Don't want a flag? Don't touch the kicker.

3. If you don't want a false start, get set before the snap.

[RedFanAlways1966]

Originally Posted by Falls City Beer

Man, Bengals go from greatness to obscurity in just a matter of weeks. So much for the rebirth of Bengals' football.

What game did you watch? Was it the CINCINNATI Bengals or some other Bengals team?!? Must have been another team b/c the CINCINNATI team won today.

Premature things (sayings, the thing that causes unexpected pregnancies, etc) can get people in trouble. Oh well... some learn, some don't.

[Falls City Beer]

Originally Posted by RedFanAlways1966

What game did you watch? Was it the CINCINNATI Bengals or some other Bengals team?!? Must have been another team b/c the CINCINNATI team won today.

Premature things (sayings, the thing that causes unexpected pregnancies, etc) can get people in trouble. Oh well... some learn, some don't.

They can still salvage the season obviously, but I've seen few ass-kickings like the one laid on the Bengals by New England. That was one of the worst home losses by a supposed contender that I've seen in my life. Add a loss to the doormat Bucs the following week, then a squeaker this week against a so-so Carolina squad, and if you aren't doubting them, you should be.

I guess a lot depends on health.

[RedFanAlways1966]

Just giving you a hard time for the comment that must have been made around halftime! I too was starting to doubt it all at that point.

They did a 180 in the 2nd half. Offense and defense. Surprising and refreshing.

[SteelSD]

Originally Posted by Dom Heffner

Steel, I didn't watch the game, so help me out here. How does Vick throw for 232 yards and 4 touchdowns and he confirms how overrated he is?

And how does Pittsburgh dominate somebody when they give up 41 points?

Was the officiating that bad? I'm not being a smart-tail, I just watched the game on stattracker, so I honestly have no idea how things looked.

Having incredible field position constantly (driven by Pitt not being able to hold onto the football) is the impetus behind the TD's, Dom. Having to drive only 22, 25, 51, and 26 yards can make pretty much any QB look good. Vick was all over the place- particularly in the first half; bouncing throws all over the field and throwing picks. On the throws he did complete, his receivers constantly saved him by making near-circus catches. In short, he looked awful (Kordell Stewart awful). Only the fact that Pitt couldn't figure out how to cover Crumpler running straight down the middle of the field saved Vick from looking embarrassingly bad.

At one point in the first half, Pitt was up 17-7 (with the Falcon's TD coming off a fumbled punt, of course) and the Falcons simply couldn't stop them offensively. Until a fumbled snap (handing the Falcons their 2nd TD), Pitt had scored on every drive while dominating the play both offensively and defensively until they decided to just hand the game away.

And the officiating on the last two possessions in regulation was ridiculous. The refs allowed the Falcons to have a second chance at a game winner and robbed Pittsburgh of their own. But it shouldn't have come to that in the first place if Pittsburgh had simply held onto the ball. Atlanta had absolutely nothing without that.

[SteelSD]

Originally Posted by Yachtzee

2. Roughing the kicker is a strict liability penalty. You touch the kicker, you get a flag. Don't want a flag? Don't touch the kicker.

1. The call was "Running into the Kicker"; not "Roughing the Kicker".
2. He didn't touch the kicker. The kicker flopped; acting as if he'd taken a shotgun blast to the head.

3. If you don't want a false start, get set before the snap.

He was. Initially, the refs were going to call an Illegal Formation penalty until they realized that it wouldn't run time off the clock. So they decided to call the phantom False Start instead...on a WR...during a spike play. Riiiight.

[Caveat Emperor]

Originally Posted by Yachtzee

2. Roughing the kicker is a strict liability penalty. You touch the kicker, you get a flag. Don't want a flag? Don't touch the kicker.

Nothing bothers me, though, quite like when the kicker takes that "extra hop" to make sure he lands on top of a defender and then writhes on the ground like he's just had his hamstring roll up the back of his leg.

[SeeinRed]

In order to dominate a game, you must shut down the other Team. The Steelers had no trouble scoring points, they just couldn't stop the Falcons from scoring. They did everything but dominate. You don't dominate and give up 41 points. It just doesn't happen. Say what you will about mistakes and penalties making it appear otherwise, but the Steelers did not put up a dominating performance by any stretch of the immagination. Besides, in order to dominate, you also have to cut down on the mistakes. The Steelers didn't.

Yes, they had 473 yards, 418 of them in the air, but they also gave up 399. 173 of them were on the ground. As much as the Steelers dominated the Falcon's pass defense, the Falcons dominated the Steeler's run defense.

Just like the Bengals last week, the Steelers lost on their own. The officals didn't make them lose. Do calls change outcomes? Absolutely. Ususally because they change momentum, not because they single handedly put points on the board for the other team. I feel for them in that reguard, but you can't blame the penalties alone. The running into the kicker call was mostly because of the acting, but you can't touch the kicker. You can't even let yourself get in a position where that call can be made. Plain and simple. There really is no gray area around it, you can't touch the kicker. The false start was iffy. There was a little movement. I tend to think you don't make that call, but it was a legit call never the less.

[SeeinRed]

Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor

Nothing bothers me, though, quite like when the kicker takes that "extra hop" to make sure he lands on top of a defender and then writhes on the ground like he's just had his hamstring roll up the back of his leg.

You try to give your team an advantage any way you can. Its like taking a charge in Basketball. Very rarely is there much contact, but you're going to act like there was to try to get the call. It might seem a bit rediculous at times, but when your team is the one to get the call, I'm sure you don't complain about it too much.

[Yachtzee]

Originally Posted by SteelSD

1. The call was "Running into the Kicker"; not "Roughing the Kicker".
2. He didn't touch the kicker. The kicker flopped; acting as if he'd taken a shotgun blast to the head.



He was. Initially, the refs were going to call an Illegal Formation penalty until they realized that it wouldn't run time off the clock. So they decided to call the phantom False Start instead...on a WR...during a spike play. Riiiight.

Just watched it again on Football Night In America and it definitely looks like Polamalu rolled into his akle. I didn't see any flop into Polamalu.

I don't know where you got the "Refs were going to call Illegal Formation..." from. I know the announcer thought it was Illegal Formation, but the announcer was quite clearly wrong. As far as the false start goes, Washington was set, then moved and came set again before the snap. False Start.

[SteelSD]

Originally Posted by SeeinRed

In order to dominate a game, you must shut down the other Team. The Steelers had no trouble scoring points, they just couldn't stop the Falcons from scoring. They did everything but dominate. You don't dominate and give up 41 points. It just doesn't happen. Say what you will about mistakes and penalties making it appear otherwise, but the Steelers did not put up a dominating performance by any stretch of the immagination. Besides, in order to dominate, you also have to cut down on the mistakes. The Steelers didn't.

Yeah. They actually did. Until the fumble-fest, the Steelers completely throttled the Falcons- who didn't record a first down until the 4:00 minute mark passed in the second quarter. It's easy to misunderstand how cutting the field by 75% can give the appearance that Pittsburgh couldn't stop the Falcons, but they did- and consistently. Problem is that Pitt couldn't stop the stupid turnovers and mental errors (another "Celebration" penalty).

Yes, they had 473 yards, 418 of them in the air, but they also gave up 399. 173 of them were on the ground. As much as the Steelers dominated the Falcon's pass defense, the Falcons dominated the Steeler's run defense.

The Falcons didn't do anything offensively (including running the ball) until the Steelers defense got completely worn down by the turnover-fest and couldn't get off the field. Apparantly, you didn't watch the game or even pay attention to the PBP or drive charts.

Just like the Bengals last week, the Steelers lost on their own. The officals didn't make them lose. Do calls change outcomes? Absolutely. Ususally because they change momentum, not because they single handedly put points on the board for the other team. I feel for them in that reguard, but you can't blame the penalties alone. The running into the kicker call was mostly because of the acting, but you can't touch the kicker. You can't even let yourself get in a position where that call can be made. Plain and simple. There really is no gray area around it, you can't touch the kicker. The false start was iffy. There was a little movement. I tend to think you don't make that call, but it was a legit call never the less.

First, you might want to read my initial post about how the Steelers actually did lose on their own regardless of the penalties. Any other interpretation of what I said is, at best, a misreading of my post. At worst, it's the definition of a strawman. The officiating, however, was as poor as I can remember- including a helmet-to-helmet hit that drew no flag and knocked Ben out of the game and a needless booth review that allowed the Atlanta defense to regroup. Let's see...helmet to helmet on Ben but the Steelers draw a roughing call for hitting Vick while he's running an OPTION play. Seems fair. Of course, Charlie Batch sliced and diced the Falcons to the tune of 195 yards (15.0 Avg.) and two TD's.

BTW, you can minimize the impact of phantom penalities if it's convenient for you, but when the game is at a make-or-break point, there's no coming back from bad calls and "momentum" can't be recovered. The Steelers found that out a few years back when a kicker from the Titans pulled the same flop act and the officials cost Pitt a playoff game. But- AGAIN- it shouldn't have gotten to that point had Pittsburgh not been- AGAIN- a stupid, sloppy team today.

Oh, and there will always be "gray" areas as long as human beings officiate the game. The kicker obviously flopped. The penalty at the end was a phantom call that NEVER gets made (particularly on a WR) when a team is rushing to the line.

Say what you will, but the Steelers dominated the actual play of that game and without the turnovers would have rolled over the Falcons- who couldn't stop them all game long and couldn't get untracked without short fields. But, again, Pittsburgh couldn't get out of their own way so, again, they lost by handing the game to a very very mediocre Atlanta squad.

[SteelSD]

Originally Posted by Yachtzee

Just watched it again on Football Night In America and it definitely looks like Polamalu rolled into his akle. I didn't see any flop into Polamalu.

Yeah? And I saw a QB's head being driven into the ground last weekend, so ain't we both content.

[max venable]

Originally Posted by SteelSD

1. The call was "Running into the Kicker"; not "Roughing the Kicker".
2. He didn't touch the kicker. The kicker flopped; acting as if he'd taken a shotgun blast to the head.



He was. Initially, the refs were going to call an Illegal Formation penalty until they realized that it wouldn't run time off the clock. So they decided to call the phantom False Start instead...on a WR...during a spike play. Riiiight.

Conspiracy theory. Riiiight.