Bengals v. Ravens -- 'Do or die?'

[MWM]

This division is going to be like the NL Central this year, the team that sucks the least will win.

[max venable]

What you guys are saying about last year's D vs. this year's D is right, but the offense--and I know we're banged up on the OL--but last year's offense could just go out and outscore people. This year's version is not even all that fun to watch. I have no confidence in our ability to make clutch plays.

[GAC]

Originally Posted by MWM

What we're seeing this year on defense is what last year's defense would have looked like without the turnovers, which was the product of luck moreso than design. The defense line is awful and the pass rush is as bad as I've seen. Marvin has obviously done a good job overall, but the defense hasn't improved at all and that's a big indictment on him. This defense is just horrendous.

But do you think the lose of very key defensive players has been the key there?

And that was a bad call; but the way the Bengals were playing, and looking at what little time was on the clock, I don't think it would have mattered much.

[WVRed]

Originally Posted by MWM

This division is going to be like the NL Central this year, the team that sucks the least will win.

Negative. Baltimore is going to run away with the division.

Pittsburgh is in worse shape than Cincinnati, and the Bengals still have a brutal schedule. We face the Patriots and Colts, the Ravens play Tennessee and Miami. Injuries and the schedule will be what will do us in, and the Ravens will take full advantage.

I'm not calling for Marvin's head. In fact, letting him go would be the biggest blunder outside of Bob Huggins being forced out. He may not have improved the defense, but neither has Tony Dungy with the Colts. If anything, Marvin is Brian Billick in reverse. Billick was a brilliant offensive coordinator before he left the Vikings for the Ravens, but his specialty lies in defense.

If anybody should be on the hot seat right now, it should be Bob Bratkowski and his horrendous playcalling.

[MWM]

NO way! Baltimore will be exposed. They're really not that good a football team.

[traderumor]

Originally Posted by WVRed

Negative. Baltimore is going to run away with the division.

Pittsburgh is in worse shape than Cincinnati, and the Bengals still have a brutal schedule. We face the Patriots and Colts, the Ravens play Tennessee and Miami. Injuries and the schedule will be what will do us in, and the Ravens will take full advantage.

I'm not calling for Marvin's head. In fact, letting him go would be the biggest blunder outside of Bob Huggins being forced out. He may not have improved the defense, but neither has Tony Dungy with the Colts. If anything, Marvin is Brian Billick in reverse. Billick was a brilliant offensive coordinator before he left the Vikings for the Ravens, but his specialty lies in defense.

If anybody should be on the hot seat right now, it should be Bob Bratkowski and his horrendous playcalling.

Bratkowski's play calling was fine. The running play didn't fool the Ravens, perhaps he was thinking he might catch them in a blitz, that's football, constant guessing game. And the Ravens scored 12 points today with their offense, as much as we're picking on the D. The other points came on a short drive and the INT, so I'm not ready to give them the division quite yet. The Bengals have lost 3 of the 4 games by 9 points and they are a few breaks away from having 1 loss. I tend to lose track of that as they sit 4-4.

[max venable]

Originally Posted by MWM

NO way! Baltimore will be exposed. They're really not that good a football team.

I totally agree. I've thought that from day one. They've played a nothin' schedule so far.

[Strikes Out Looking]

My report--

By the time I got to my seat, with less than five minutes off the clock, the Bengals were down 14-0. I was surrounded by Balti-morons, who were a hooting and a hollering for their Browns franchise. My son and I, of course, sat in the wrong seats, and missed spending time with my friend and his family, who was exactly one section over in the correct seats.

The Bengals started to play better after their shaky start. Unfortunately, they let too much time get off the clock in the 2nd and 3rd period on 3 and long when McNair would miraculously dump it to Heap for a first down.

The Ravens didn't really look good on Offense and Jamal Lewis is done. If the Bengals hadn't got themselves in that hole, they'd have won easily. But that's like saying if Adam Dunn had hit five homers in September, the Reds would've won the division. Didn't happen.

Chad Johnson was a non-entity except I noticed that after TJ had his tantrum at the end of the game, it was Johnson who walked with him and calmed him down. I don't know if you saw that on tv.

There were a lot of Bengals fans there (maybe 5,000) out of the 70,000 fans at the game. The Baltimorons gave a good razzing to the Bengals fans after the game. They shouldn't count their chickens.

At halftime they put Peter Boulware in the Ravens Hall of Fame. Art Modell was there. He had to be supported by two people to stand up and then had to be lifted in to a golf cart to be taken out. He doesn't look good at all. I won't be surprised if he is around much longer (he's only a minority ownere of the team now).

And that's my report. I still think the Bengals can win the division--but they have to stop putting themselves in holes and letting the games come down to the end when the officiating may matter.

[flyer85]

I would say the "character" issue is starting to rear its ugly head, at least by seeing how the game ended and the comments afterward. Marvin better get control of this team or it is over.

[redsfanmia]

Turn out the lights the party's over.

[traderumor]

Originally Posted by Ricardo Cabesa

I would say the "character" issue is starting to rear its ugly head, at least by seeing how the game ended and the comments afterward. Marvin better get control of this team or it is over.

What comments would those be? Chad wanting the ball in a loss? Yea, that's a new tune. TJ slamming his helmet after another official misses an obvious call? How outrageous! And a quarterback upset with a receiver after a pick when said receiver didn't do what the QB wanted him to do? My goodness, man the lifeboats.

"Character issues" seem to amazingly ebb and flow with wins and losses. Go figure.

[flyer85]

Character issues rear their head when the going gets tough, not during the good times. Guys with character won't quit and will fight harder to win, guys without it will quit(like Henry did yesterday), or will whine and complain(which is a way of diverting blame to others) and if you have too many non-character guys it will become contagious.

If Marvin does take care of it now, the team will be finished.

[traderumor]

Originally Posted by Ricardo Cabesa

Character issues rear their head when the going gets tough, not during the good times. Guys with character won't quit and will fight harder to win, guys without it will quit(like Henry did yesterday), or will whine and complain(which is a way of diverting blame to others) and if you have too many non-character guys it will become contagious.

If Marvin does take care of it now, the team will be finished.

Don't forget Henry also caught bombs to get them back in the game two weeks in a row. I assume Palmer was yelling at him for not making a miraculous effort on the hail mary, but if the case, that is not very realistic. The ball was yards over Henry's head and he was not even looking for it yet. For all we know, he was yelling because he did something stupid that caused him to be late getting there.

I hear what you're saying, I just think "character" is a wild card that is pulled out when performances are not resulting in victories. The odd thing about bringing up "character" is that this team was down and out in two straight games but still managed to pull themselves back to getting a shot to win it in the last drive. They've just been unable to do that, but I think the evidence is against the "character" argument at this point. I would see it having some merit if yesterday turned into a blowout because things started out so badly, for an example.

[flyer85]

Originally Posted by traderumor

I hear what you're saying, I just think "character" is a wild card that is pulled out when performances are not resulting in victories.

Character is something that is only on display when the going gets tough, not when things are going well. You never quit, it's why guys like Henry and Randy Moss are losers at heart. They've got incredible talent and ability but when the chips are down and times get tough you can't count on them, that is what character is all about, giving all your effort during desperate times when all seems lost. In the end, you never know when the guys without character are going to quit on you.

It's the reason that the Navy Seals training school puts them through absolute hell, because they want to know if they have high character people who will never break, never quit being a team player. It's not about the whose the best and whose the strongest, it's about exposing character flaws.

[traderumor]

Originally Posted by Ricardo Cabesa

Character is something that is only on display when the going gets tough, not when things are going well. You never quit, it's why guys like Henry and Randy Moss are losers at heart. They've got incredible talent and ability but when the chips are down and times get tough you can't count on them, that is what character is all about, giving all your effort during desperate times when all seems lost. In the end, you never know when the guys without character are going to quit on you.

It's the reason that the Navy Seals training school puts them through absolute hell, because they want to know if they have high character people who will never break, never quit being a team player. It's not about the whose the best and whose the strongest, it's about exposing character flaws.

Except you have not shown any evidence of Henry "quitting" except maybe he shoulda/coulda/woulda done more on the hail mary, yet I showed evidence of two huge 4th Quarter catches that brought the Bengals from out of the game to having a chance two weeks in a row, at a time when the opposing D is defending in a way that it should be the last thing that happens. It seems that you assume because Henry has made some really dumb moves off the field that it is proof enough that he is a "quitter." So, it really comes down to "if only certain guys would try harder." I'm glad the coaches will be taking a different direction in trying to right the ship.