Bengals putting a beat-down on San Diego

[WVRed]

Originally Posted by traderumor

Personally, even suggesting that Marvin is a part of the problem rather than a part of the solution is just crazy talk. The funny thing is, the team that beat us yesterday had a similar season to ours last year, losing close games, just seemingly unable to finish off games. Our season is going like that. Is Marvin perfect? Obviously not. But he does know what he's doing and understands what it takes to build a winning franchise. How soon we forget the 90s, I guess.

I'm not sure about the "quitting" thing. I'm sure they have some basis for making such charges from what they saw happening, but I honestly think that is a lame excuse for the D that simply does not have enough talent to stop NFL offenses.

I'm not saying Marvin should be fired. I'm saying though that he needs to shake up the coaching staff(both Bratkowski and Bresnahan need to go). There is about as much a chance of that happening as there is of OTS being let go by Kentucky.

We knew we would have the toughest schedule in the league, and the Saints actually being a contender this season only made it worse. In a way, comparing the Chargers, we are similar. San Diego had the toughest schedule in the league last year and are now in prime position to win the AFC West. With the schedule looking pretty weak next season, 2007 could be the Bengals year to make something happen.

[Tony Cloninger]

You do not have to be in the bengals locker room to see what is happening.....they show it to the world. Real Word "Cincinnati Bengals style".......when people stop being polite and show their true colors.

[Fil3232]

Originally Posted by WVRed

I'm not saying Marvin should be fired. I'm saying though that he needs to shake up the coaching staff(both Bratkowski and Bresnahan need to go). There is about as much a chance of that happening as there is of OTS being let go by Kentucky.

We knew we would have the toughest schedule in the league, and the Saints actually being a contender this season only made it worse. In a way, comparing the Chargers, we are similar. San Diego had the toughest schedule in the league last year and are now in prime position to win the AFC West. With the schedule looking pretty weak next season, 2007 could be the Bengals year to make something happen.

Bob Bratkowski is about as much of the problem as the water boy. To throw him in this mess, especially after a 545 yd performance from the offense against the supposed #2 defense in the NFL is absurd. In fact, on bengals.com, Geoff Hobson reports that this week the Bengals gave more play calling responsibility to Bratkowski and less to Palmer. Besides that, I don't think it's any coincidence that the best game of the year for the line resulted in the best game of the year for the offense.

Blame Bresnahan and the D all you want, but please don't blame Bratkowski, one of the most respected O-cordinators in the league, for the team's bad play.

[Yachtzee]

I had a feeling some of the play-calling issues arose from Palmer changing things at the line. It just seemed like he was always changing stuff at the line.

As far as the D goes, the players execute, but the coaches are responsible for preparing those players for the game and putting them in a position for them to succeed. If the players didn't "execute," then the next question is "why didn't they?"

Of course some players are definitely liabilities. If Tory James were on the Reds, he would be one of those veteran infielders the Reds like to bring in to improve the defense, only to find out that his defense isn't what it used to be and his hitting is worse than they could have hoped for a "good field-no hit" middle infielder. James can't tackle to save his life and his once vaunted cover skills have clearly diminished.

[paintmered]

Originally Posted by Fil3232

Bob Bratkowski is about as much of the problem as the water boy. To throw him in this mess, especially after a 545 yd performance from the offense against the supposed #2 defense in the NFL is absurd. In fact, on bengals.com, Geoff Hobson reports that this week the Bengals gave more play calling responsibility to Bratkowski and less to Palmer. Besides that, I don't think it's any coincidence that the best game of the year for the line resulted in the best game of the year for the offense.

Blame Bresnahan and the D all you want, but please don't blame Bratkowski, one of the most respected O-cordinators in the league, for the team's bad play.

I have to agree with this. Bratkowski is one of the least of the concerns I have. However, I do question why with a 21-point lead they aren't running Rudi up the gut for four-yards a chunk? Up huge, they should be icing the game on the ground instead of continuing to air it out.

A run and shoot mentality plus a horrid defense means no team is ever out of it against the Bengals.

[RedsBaron]

Originally Posted by paintmered

I have to agree with this. Bratkowski is one of the least of the concerns I have. However, I do question why with a 21-point lead they aren't running Rudi up the gut for four-yards a chunk? Up huge, they should be icing the game on the ground instead of continuing to air it out.

A run and shoot mentality plus a horrid defense means no team is ever out of it against the Bengals.

The fact the Bengals have a horrid defense may have been why the offense believed that it had to keep airing it out. "Hey guys, I know we have 28 points at the half, but our defense is capable of surrendering 42 points in the second half, so let's air it out."

[traderumor]

Originally Posted by Yachtzee

I had a feeling some of the play-calling issues arose from Palmer changing things at the line. It just seemed like he was always changing stuff at the line.

As far as the D goes, the players execute, but the coaches are responsible for preparing those players for the game and putting them in a position for them to succeed. If the players didn't "execute," then the next question is "why didn't they?"

Of course some players are definitely liabilities. If Tory James were on the Reds, he would be one of those veteran infielders the Reds like to bring in to improve the defense, only to find out that his defense isn't what it used to be and his hitting is worse than they could have hoped for a "good field-no hit" middle infielder. James can't tackle to save his life and his once vaunted cover skills have clearly diminished.

Tory James is in his 3rd year and in the twilight of his career. His is the life of a corner, your number shows up, regardless of whether or not he was doing his job and fans immediately assume the person sucks. Well, by the standards most fans have, all corners in the league are no good because a pass is completed in their area. Of course, they have no idea of the responsibilities of the person they are blasting, but because he was in the area and a pass was completed, then he must not be able to cover people. I believe this is his last year, so from here on people can come up with a catchy nickname for Jonathon Joseph, which I'm sure they will since every time another team completes a pass it will be his fault.

[Yachtzee]

Originally Posted by traderumor

Tory James is in his 3rd year and in the twilight of his career. His is the life of a corner, your number shows up, regardless of whether or not he was doing his job and fans immediately assume the person sucks. Well, by the standards most fans have, all corners in the league are no good because a pass is completed in their area. Of course, they have no idea of the responsibilities of the person they are blasting, but because he was in the area and a pass was completed, then he must not be able to cover people. I believe this is his last year, so from here on people can come up with a catchy nickname for Jonathon Joseph, which I'm sure they will since every time another team completes a pass it will be his fault.

Tory James was a good cover CB two years ago when the Bengals picked him up. Now he is not. His number shows up a lot when passes are complete because they're throwing the ball to an area where he has the responsibility of covering the receiver. I'm no expert, but just thinking about how I would position players based on their skills and abilities, I would do things this way...If I have a young rookie with a ton of talent and a older vet who has lost a step physically but is strong in the mental aspects of the game, I would start the rookie. Sure he's going to get burned every so often. But when he does, he has the opportunity to learn from it, he'll improve his game and do better as the season goes on. The vet who has lost a step is only going to get worse as he suffers wear and tear over the season.

I think James would be much better as the nickel back/first string backup. That way he could keep his legs fresh and use his experience and instincts more effectively. Joseph needs to be out there making the plays and honing his skills.

[WMR]

Originally Posted by traderumor

Tory James is in his 3rd year and in the twilight of his career. His is the life of a corner, your number shows up, regardless of whether or not he was doing his job and fans immediately assume the person sucks. Well, by the standards most fans have, all corners in the league are no good because a pass is completed in their area. Of course, they have no idea of the responsibilities of the person they are blasting, but because he was in the area and a pass was completed, then he must not be able to cover people. I believe this is his last year, so from here on people can come up with a catchy nickname for Jonathon Joseph, which I'm sure they will since every time another team completes a pass it will be his fault.

You either get the job done or you don't. Tory is NOT getting the job done.

All the rest of this, coming up with nicknames for rookes... not sure what you're getting at... as long as you do your job consistently people aren't going to call for you to lose your job.

Does Champ Bailey get burned occassionally? Of course. Is he the best cover corner in the NFL? Yes.

[WMR]

Originally Posted by flyer85

guess you called that a little early

Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor

Today's "I spoke too soon thread title of the day" goes to...

Originally Posted by WilyMoROCKS

28-7!!!

Bengals looking like Bengals of last-season today in this first half.

Ahem...

[traderumor]

Originally Posted by WilyMoROCKS

You either get the job done or you don't. Tory is NOT getting the job done.

All the rest of this, coming up with nicknames for rookes... not sure what you're getting at... as long as you do your job consistently people aren't going to call for you to lose your job.

Does Champ Bailey get burned occassionally? Of course. Is he the best cover corner in the NFL? Yes.

How do you know? Do you know what D they are in when receivers are open? Do you know who's responsibility it is when he shows up late trying to catch up with someone? Maybe he was in a zone expecting safety help when you see his "20" come into the picture. I dunno, maybe you have access to Bengals game films and spend all week breaking them down to determine who is not doing their job. But if you're not, I wouldn't be so quick to conclude who is doing their job and who is not out there.

I really don't care to defend any of the defensive backs, but you nor I can say "James is not getting the job done" because he is dependent on 10 other guys, any of which if they do not do their job, it can make him look bad.

Sunday is a great example. In the 2nd half, the lack of a pass rush forced the dbacks to have to cover longer than can reasonably be expected. This has been a recurring theme all year. It is also why the dbacks aren't getting any picks. If you give any NFL QB time to throw, most will be able to pick apart a secondary. I would venture to say that if Champ Bailey was a member of this D, all other things equal, people would be saying "man, Bailey must be overrated, he can't cover anybody" because of the lack of help up front.

[WMR]

How many times does the same DB have to get beaten before you have to assume that maybe it's not the entire defense's fault every single time?

These defensive scheme problems don't seem to continually plague Deltha O'Neal.

I don't need to break down tape, my eyes are plenty enough to see that Tory routinely gets beaten off the line by opposing receivers and tackles worse than Deion Sanders.

I don't think people would continually bash Joseph if he was given Tory's starting spot. A rookie DB with unlimited potential versus a clearly skill-depleted veteran should be more than enough to prevent the reasonable--clearly, the NFL.com board-type crew doesn't fit this bill--fan from calling for the head of a rookie DB who is learning the ropes of playing cornerback in the NFL.

Push Tory to the nickel.