Alex Gonzalez to the Reds

[pedro]

Originally Posted by bigredmachine1976

Shouldn't that be:

<evil voice>

Yes grasshopper, my evil plan to get men on base and drive up the oppossing teams pitch count will soon come to fruition. Then we can dispose of those who worship batting average and scrappiness once and for all..

</evil voice>

I'm pretty sure with the HTML you used you'll just get a regular voice not an evil one.

My bad.

Now I will be forced to cut you to the quick with my trusty slide rule.

Insolent fool.

[WMR]

Originally Posted by pedro

[evil voice]
Yes grasshopper, my evil plan to get men on base and drive up the oppossing teams pitch count will soon come to fruition. Then we can dispose of those who worship batting average and scrappiness once and for all..

[/evil voice]

[EKURed]

Originally Posted by PuffyPig

I liked the Guardado signing.

But saving 8 out of 10 games is actually less than what Graves was doing for us, even during the "dark years".

BTW, both of Guardado's blown saves were the result of unearned runs.

And a result of an arm that was shot.

[TRF]

Originally Posted by westofyou

You mean the player who led the team in Win Shares?

Making him the first Reds starter in 13 years to do the feat.

Pretty good deal for a guy with no eye for pitching.

He also signed:

Joe freaking Mays.

Lohse

Yan

Majewski

Ryan Franklin.


Yup... great eye. blind squirrel, etc. etc.

[Johnny Footstool]

This line from the article was heee-larious:

Krivsky is too good a judge of talent to end up with Hammond in his bullpen.

I submit edabbs44's list as evidence to the contrary.

[westofyou]

Originally Posted by TRF

He also signed:

Joe freaking Mays.

Lohse

Yan

Majewski

Ryan Franklin.


Yup... great eye. blind squirrel, etc. etc.

Yeah, degrade the big pick with little ones... been down that road before, all those AA pitchers ect, ect....

[redsmetz]

Originally Posted by vaticanplum

This is finally "almost" official on reds.com (I don't know what they were waiting for):

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/NASAp...=.jsp&c_id=cin

Krivsky: "I have nothing to announce," Krivsky said. "When we do, we'll announce it. It's the same thing I've told everyone else."

No matter how one may feel about Wayne Krivsky as a GM, something tells me he'd be a kick to have dinner with. "Ooh Wayne, doesn't the lobster look good?" "I have nothing more to say. I told you I wanted steak. Stop asking me questions, dammit!!"

He is a very straightforward speaker. I like that in my humans.

And it's a marked contrast between the yackiness of Jim Bowden and Dan O'Brien. Bowden liked to talk about nearly everything he was doing. I know I'm probably seen as a Krivsky apologist, but I like this guy's method. He knows we're all chomping at the bit for some action. He also knows it's a long off-season. The same is true of development within the organization. We're all anxious for young players to get here and to get here now (if not sooner!). And yet, he seems to hold value in players progressing in incremental steps. Move up, suceed there, move up again etc. I think in the long run, this team will be the better for it.

[Cedric]

Originally Posted by westofyou

Yeah, degrade the big pick with little ones... been down that road before, all those AA pitchers ect, ect....

It's amazing. I've never seen anything like the vultures out for Krivsky at this point. He inherited one of the worst pitching staffs I've ever seen and had VERY little value to try and trade to make it better.

Do you guys really think he had envisions of Joe Mays or Esteban Yan turning into all stars? No, but they were the only options and there was no reason to risk it.

Would I have went for Mays? No, but it was in his comfort level and it failed. What dare I say did we lose for the future? Nobody expected us to compete last year anyway.

[M2]

I think that Nats trade freaked out a lot of people. It was a thoroughly awful deal from the get go. It wasn't good in theory, it didn't work in practice and it's put the team two steps back heading into the offseason (where there'd be a burgeoning market for guys like Lopez and Kearns).

IMO that put a taint on Krivsky's other spastic, but harmless attempts to mine some player talent to keep the team in the hunt. Without the Nats trade, guys like Mays and Yan would be largely forgotten. Now they're emblematic of a deep seated problem to some folks.

I still take comfort in the fact that Krivsky did more good in his first two months than DanO did in two years. He's certainly aggressive and active, which is good because he's got a lot to do. I like the Gonzalez signing (though I'm queasy about the third year) because it directly addresses something that desperately needed to be addressed. Gonzalez wouldn't have been my first choice, but I'm not going to fault Krivsky for getting a primo glove man when what he needed was a primo glove man.

I understand it offers no comfort to those who have been (justifiably) worried about the offense, but it's possible Krivsky choked during his first in-season test as a GM and that he'll get back to making the Reds a better-rounded ballclub (and that includes offense) during the offseason.

[TRF]

Originally Posted by westofyou

Yeah, degrade the big pick with little ones... been down that road before, all those AA pitchers ect, ect....

yeah you can also ignore all the empirical evidence you want too.

Arroyo was a great acquisition to the reds. I grudgingly admit that. It was a gamble for both teams as Arroyo had exactly one good season and one "meh" season as a starter. WMP had about the same, probably even less experience though. the results were great for the reds, not so much for the sox.

Had Krivsky stopped in April He'd have looked like a genius.

But the list of ABYSMAL pitchers he acquired after that is too much even for you to ignore. And yes I have no doubt Calvin Medlock, David Shafar, Brad Salmon, Tom Shearn and even Tyler Pelland could have done as well as the total DRECK that Krivsky brought in.

Nearly every move he made after April hurt the reds. Schoenweiss and MAYBE Guardado bein the exceptions. He is overly fascinated with aging veterans with questionable skills. And those skills were questionable when they were in their prime! How long was Q on the 25 man roster?

So let's see.

He has no eye WHATSOEVER for finding decent reliefe pitching.
He has no eye WHATSOEVER for finding decent bench players.
And of the 4 pitchers he acquired for the rotation, one was OUTSTANDING, and three flat out sucked.

but hey pithy one liners make me change my mind all the time. Instead of, you know actually looking at the big picture. I have learned more about baseball from you, it's history and trends than any other poster. But you have an air about you that can be rather off-putting at times.

According to you, there was no way the guys in AA or AAA could have performed as well as the total crap that Krivsky brought to the pen, because the Reds talent evaluators didn't think they could. That's the flaw in your argument. Those same talent evaluators helped Krivsky form the opinion that Joe Freaking Mays could salvage his career after KC threw him away. And Franklin and Yan and Kim and Lohse and Majewski....

and now lookee what he signs. Mike Stanton. 39 year old Mike Stanton to a two year deal with an option for a third year. There are at least 3 guys (Medlock, Shearn and Salmon) that I'd rather see get a shot at the bullpen. Especially Medlock as all he ever does is produce. And since he is of diminutive stature, your own research has told me that his window is probably 5-7 years before his effectiveness disappears. I'm not saying Stanton won't perform well. I'm saying when the Reds MOST pressing need is quality SP, signing a Mike Stanton is treading water. Especially if you really believe Bray and Majewski will start performing next year the way you thought they would this year. And I actually think they could. Bray more than Maj. He still overpaid to get them though.

[Johnny Footstool]

Originally Posted by M2

I still take comfort in the fact that Krivsky did more good in his first two months than DanO did in two years.

I see what you're saying, but that's like giving Krivsky credit for being able to breathe and feed himself.

[westofyou]

yeah you can also ignore all the empirical evidence you want too.

Reds pitchers 2006 in Runs Saved Above Average

CINCINNATI REDS
SEASON
2006

RSAA                           RSAA    
1    Bronson Arroyo               41   
2    Aaron Harang                 28   
T3   David Weathers               11   
T3   Todd Coffey                  11   
5    Scott Schoeneweis             7   
T6   Matt Belisle                  6   
T6   Eddie Guardado                6   
T8   Bill Bray                     2   
T8   Kyle Lohse                    2   
T8   Jason Johnson                 2   
T8   Esteban Yan                   2   
T8   Kent Mercker                  2   
T13  Rheal Cormier                 1   
T13  Ryan Franklin                 1   
T15  Chris Michalak                0   
T15  Jason Standridge              0   
T15  Justin Germano                0   
T15  Sun Woo Kim                   0   
19   Mike Gosling                 -1   
T20  Rick White                   -4   
T20  Brian Shackelford            -4   
T22  Mike Burns                   -6   
T22  Eric Milton                  -6   
T22  Gary Majewski                -6   
T22  Elizardo Ramirez             -6

Arroyo's was the 7th best in franchise history.

[TRF]

Yep And I already stated he was an outstanding acquisition.

Now offset that with Mays, Kim and Lohse.

And that was just the rotation additions.

And why didn't Mays make your list? or did the program blue screen when you put in his numbers?

[Johnny Footstool]

Originally Posted by westofyou

Reds pitchers 2006 in Runs Saved Above Average

CINCINNATI REDS
SEASON
2006

RSAA                           RSAA    
1    Bronson Arroyo               41   
2    Aaron Harang                 28   
T3   David Weathers               11   
T3   Todd Coffey                  11   
5    Scott Schoeneweis             7   
T6   Matt Belisle                  6   
T6   Eddie Guardado                6   
T8   Bill Bray                     2   
T8   Kyle Lohse                    2   
T8   Jason Johnson                 2   
T8   Esteban Yan                   2   
T8   Kent Mercker                  2   
T13  Rheal Cormier                 1   
T13  Ryan Franklin                 1   
T15  Chris Michalak                0   
T15  Jason Standridge              0   
T15  Justin Germano                0   
T15  Sun Woo Kim                   0   
19   Mike Gosling                 -1   
T20  Rick White                   -4   
T20  Brian Shackelford            -4   
T22  Mike Burns                   -6   
T22  Eric Milton                  -6   
T22  Gary Majewski                -6   
T22  Elizardo Ramirez             -6

Arroyo's was the 7th best in franchise history.

The question is, what did Krivsky see in Arroyo that made him realize how well he would perform for the Reds? What did he know that Theo Epstein and most other people on the planet didn't know?

And why didn't that special wisdom help Krivsky recognize the difference between Arroyo and the likes of Mays, Majewski, et al?

[edabbs44]

What is that chart telling us? That WK made a great acquisition with Arroyo and that's it? It takes more than one good move to get my buy in.