Bengals vs. Browns, Round 2

[ochre]

The Browns moved to Cincinnati in 1967, fully becoming the modern browns in 1970 with the merger of the AFL and NFL. For the period between 1962 and 1967 an expansion franchise, that was allowed to maintain the Browns intellectual property and records, took over in Cleveland. This expansion franchise moved to Baltimore in 1996. In 1999 another expansion franchise was stood up in Cleveland, with the lineage and honors that rightfully belonged to the Cincinnati franchise being passed on to this latest expansion team.

That's my version of it all anyway....

[Spring~Fields]

I am not touching that one.

Anyway, GAC knows that I still believe in Santa Clause, the tooth fairy and the Easter Bunny, and that I was just kidding him, it is not my fault that …Cleveland…..!

[remdog]

Originally Posted by ochre

The Browns moved to Cincinnati in 1967, fully becoming the modern browns in 1970 with the merger of the AFL and NFL. For the period between 1962 and 1967 an expansion franchise, that was allowed to maintain the Browns intellectual property and records, took over in Cleveland. This expansion franchise moved to Baltimore in 1996. In 1999 another expansion franchise was stood up in Cleveland, with the lineage and honors that rightfully belonged to the Cincinnati franchise being passed on to this latest expansion team.

That's my version of it all anyway....

Growing up in Cleveland in the '50's & '60's I loved the Browns. But, for me, like Ochre, that all changed when Art Modell fired Paul Brown. When PB founded the Bengals I rooted for them from the beginning. That was the "real" Brown(s). At the time I was still in Cleveland, not knowing that I would move to Cincinnati a few years later.

Whether you are a Bengals fan or a Browns fan you have to be angry about what Art Modell did to that team and that city. No fans, no city deserves that kind of treatment.

I will always despise Modell.

I may be a Bengals fan (even through all of their tough years) but the city and fans of Cleveland deserve better than the fate that has befallen them. I hope, down the road somewhere, that these two teams both become powerhouses that fight it out every year to be THE team in the AFC. I want to see the rest of the league envy the football played in Ohio.

Rem

[GAC]

Originally Posted by TeamSelig

You should probably calm down man, and not take this stuff so serious. I'm mostly kidding about talking crap anyways.


I apologize though if I got under your skin.

First off.... you have no idea what my emotional state was when I typed my response.

I was calm and cool as a cucumber, not angry.

Just felt your statements on the Browns needed a response.

Secondly....I just think it's interesting that you got two discomboobulated franchises whose recent history of performance (10-15 years) hasn't been anything to brag about.

So neither should be coming on here talking crap about the other.

I understand it may all be done in just good natured fun.

So you're saying it would be OK for me then to start "smack talking" about the Bengals?

I won't do that, and never have, because I respect many Bengal fans on here.

[GAC]

Originally Posted by remdog

Growing up in Cleveland in the '50's & '60's I loved the Browns. But, for me, like Ochre, that all changed when Art Modell fired Paul Brown.

Believe me, I'm no Modell defender. One good thing that came out of all of it was that we got Modell out of Cleveland.

But in that "situation" with Paul Brown, one needs to really look behind the scenes at was going on when Modell initially took over. And IMHO, Brown deserved to be fired in 1962.

Yes, he was a great coach. One of the greatest. But he was losing it towards the end of his tenure in Cleveland.

The only problem was that Paul didn't like working with anyone. Especially the owner(s).

Brown did it all, and wanted to do it all because he was an obsessive-compulsive control freak down to the very last detail.

The previous owner group allowed him to do his thing too because they not only respected him, but were also scared of the guy.

Modell came in and wanted to work with Brown. He thought they could restore the Browns and make a great tandem. Art told Brown - you run the team, do your job as coach, and I'll handle the budget and marketing of the club.

That upset Brown who wasn't use to that. Owners were owners... never to be seen or heard from according to Paul Brown.

And he decided to do the "powerplay" thing that was intended to embarrass Modell and usurp his authority as owner.

And Paul Brown ended up losing. It wasn't something Modell wanted or planned to do.

Ask any of those former Brown players what they thought of Paul Brown the last 2-3 years he was with the team. They saw changes in the man, and a form of paranoia taking over that caused many to begin to really despise him and not want to play for him.

Change was inevitable.

Anyone that wants to read a really good book on this subject needs to get Terry Pluto's "When All The World Was Browns Town".

[Heath]

Originally Posted by GAC

Believe me, I'm no Modell defender. One good thing that came out of all of it was that we got Modell out of Cleveland.

But in that "situation" with Paul Brown, one needs to really look behind the scenes at was going on when Modell initially took over. And IMHO, Brown deserved to be fired in 1962.

Yes, he was a great coach. One of the greatest. But he was losing it towards the end of his tenure in Cleveland.

The only problem was that Paul didn't like working with anyone. Especially the owner(s).

Brown did it all, and wanted to do it all because he was an obsessive-compulsive control freak down to the very last detail.

The previous owner group allowed him to do his thing too because they not only respected him, but were also scared of the guy.

Modell came in and wanted to work with Brown. He thought they could restore the Browns and make a great tandem. Art told Brown - you run the team, do your job as coach, and I'll handle the budget and marketing of the club.

That upset Brown who wasn't use to that. Owners were owners... never to be seen or heard from according to Paul Brown.

And he decided to do the "powerplay" thing that was intended to embarrass Modell and usurp his authority as owner.

And Paul Brown ended up losing. It wasn't something Modell wanted or planned to do.

Ask any of those former Brown players what they thought of Paul Brown the last 2-3 years he was with the team. They saw changes in the man, and a form of paranoia taking over that caused many to begin to really despise him and not want to play for him.

Change was inevitable.

Anyone that wants to read a really good book on this subject needs to get Terry Pluto's "When All The World Was Browns Town".

Gee, I wonder where I could get a copy of that book

Ironically, the Browns won 31 out of 42 games the first two years after Brown left and Blanton Collier took over.

Someday from the smoldering ashes the Browns will rise again.

[Yachtzee]

Originally Posted by GAC

Anyone that wants to read a really good book on this subject needs to get Terry Pluto's "When All The World Was Browns Town".

Actually, having lived in the Akron area of and on since 1979, I've had plenty of opportunity to read Pluto's work over the years. He's a long time sports columnist for the Akron Beacon Journal. His writing is rife with his own personal biases and conspiracy theories. That's fine if you're a newspaper columnist, but it's not so great if you're a historian. I haven't read "When All The World Was Browns Town," but I did read "The Curse of Rocky Colavito," which read more like his own personal screed about how the Indians ownership has inflicted pain and suffering upon him. He wasn't shy about expressing his own views of Gabe Paul and Phil Seghi, or putting forth conspiracy theories about how Indians' managment was trying to screw the fans, almost like portraying "Major League" as fact. To be fair, the full title is "The Curse of Rocky Colavito: A Loving Look at a Thirty-Year Slump," so it's less a history than a memoir. I suspect the "Browns Town" book is the same way, but I could be wrong.

Of course when the Cleveland Browns v. 2.0 started turning south, I figured it was only a matter of time before Pluto came out with a book ripping the NFL and the new Browns management for not putting a winner in Cleveland. So I was not surprised when this book came out. "False Start: How The New Browns Were Set Up To Fail"

[GAC]

Originally Posted by Heath

Gee, I wonder where I could get a copy of that book

And thanks for that book buddy (as well as the T-shirt). Every Browns fan should have that book in their library.

I just sent rfs62 a copy that I found on the 'net

Ironically, the Browns won 31 out of 42 games the first two years after Brown left and Blanton Collier took over.

And since you read the book, you know why that happened. The players wanted to win for Collier more then anything else once Brown was gone.

He turned a 7-6-1 team into a 10-4 team in '63, and we all know what happened in '64.

Why IMHO? Player input into the game, which Brown forbid.

[remdog]

Gee, could it have happened because Paul Brown laid the groundwork for it? :

BTW, PB also created the most successful expansion franchise in the history of the league at that time. Common thread there, possibly.

Rem