What About These Remaining Free Agents?

[Krusty]

What about these remaining free agents becoming a Red?

[B]David Bell: Could be the righthanded bat that we need to play lst and 3rd base.

[B]Aaron Boone: Might be available at a rock bottom price.

[B]Keith Foulke: Former closer who had two off-seasons due to injuries. Might be receptive to a one year deal loaded with incentives?B]

Devern Hansack: Who? A Boston pitcher who got a cup of coffee but had pretty good minor league stats at their Triple A club:http://www.baseballamerica.com/today....php?id=468962

Dustin Hermanson: Injuries derailed his 2006 season but if you look at his 2005 season, you have to wonder if he is worth the chance?

[B]LHP Juan Lara Minor league pitcher that had nice stats for Cleveland's Double A team:
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today....php?id=444312

RHP David Riske: Might make another decent setup man.

[B]Craig Wilson lb-OFHe would make an excellent righthanded hitting lst baseman platoon and a backup for Ken Griffey, Jr. in RF.

OF Preston Wilson: At this stage of his career, he might make a nice fourth OF while providing some pop off the bench.

[blumj]

Devern Hansack's not a free agent.

[jojo]

The only fella on that list that interests me is C. Wilson. I like Bell but his value is derived mostly from his glove.

[Spring~Fields]

Originally Posted by Krusty

What about these remaining free agents becoming a Red?


RHP David Riske: Might make another decent setup man.

[B]Craig Wilson lb-OFHe would make an excellent righthanded hitting lst baseman platoon and a backup for Ken Griffey, Jr. in RF.

Riske and Wilson look like they might be able to help the Reds as long as they are healthy and are not priced out of sight.

[vaticanplum]

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[Spring~Fields]

Originally Posted by vaticanplum

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Should I agree?
Interpreter please

[MrCinatit]

Originally Posted by SpringfieldFan

Should I agree?
Interpreter please

*coughBarryZitocough*

Yeah. I would love that guy on this team. Love it.

[Spring~Fields]

Originally Posted by MrCinatit

*coughBarryZitocough*

Yeah. I would love that guy on this team. Love it.

Oh yeah, Zito, works for me.

[vaticanplum]

[TOBTTReds]

Craig Wilson in a heart beat...Sorry, I wouldn't want Milton...errr I mean Zito. No I don't really think he would be like Milton, but his numbers would plummett here. He is a fly ball pitcher without a lot of control.

[jojo]

Originally Posted by AvesIce51

Craig Wilson in a heart beat...Sorry, I wouldn't want Milton...errr I mean Zito. No I don't really think he would be like Milton, but his numbers would plummett here. He is a fly ball pitcher without a lot of control.

and his k/9 rates are trending down which exposes those tendencies........

IMHO, Zito is a very risky signing especially for the duration that his contractual demands are rumored to require....

[vaticanplum]

Originally Posted by jojo

IMHO, Zito is a very risky signing especially for the duration that his contractual demands are rumored to require....

I don't want to be a broken record, but he works incredibly hard. He's one of the few already-great pitchers in baseball whom I think could adapt to this park.

Free agents are always, always going to be tough to come by for the Reds for just that reason. Our farm system isn't ready yet. Thus I think he is the best option.

[jojo]

Originally Posted by vaticanplum

I don't want to be a broken record, but he works incredibly hard. He's one of the few already-great pitchers in baseball whom I think could adapt to this park.

Free agents are always, always going to be tough to come by for the Reds for just that reason. Our farm system isn't ready yet. Thus I think he is the best option.

This is a sincere question: by what metrics is he a worthy of being one of the highest paid pitchers in baseball? Guys often get paid for what they have done in the past but really, its important to value them for what they'll do over the course of their contract. Clearly Zito of the last three years isn't the same guy as the Zito of his first three seasons. He stills eats innings and his ERAs look good but his peripherals are getting pretty scary-especially for someone reportedly demanding 6-7 years at $15M per. Basically, his xFIPS have been steadily climbing, his K/G has been trending downward and his BB/G has been trending up. The latter two are death knells for a guy with flyball tendencies (in any park). Right now xFIP is generally excepted as the best predictor of future performance for a pitcher. Zito's last year was an icky 5.46 (mlb average for starters was: 4.60). Importantly, Zito hasn't been above average relative to the league for the last three seasons using xFIP as an indicator.

So, IMHO, its a scary proposition to commit so much for so long to a guy whose peripherals seem to scream will be in a decline phase from day one of the contract. Intangibles be damned when talking about that kind of money.

I'd much rather use a stop gap like Lohse and hope Homer can be ready by August. I mean even if Zito gives you two solid years, what will you do for the final 4-5??? There is the potential that you'll have an even more expensive facsimile of Milton that can't be traded away. Truthfully, I'm not convinced that a good version of Zito in '07 puts the Reds into the playoffs.

Frankly, given the insane market for the mediocre crop of FA arms this year, I would've spent what money I had earmarked for FAs by loading up on offense and defense.

Anyways that's the world according to me....

[vaticanplum]

Originally Posted by jojo

This is a sincere question: by what metrics is he a worthy of being one of the highest paid pitchers in baseball? Guys often get paid for what they have done in the past but really, its important to value them for what they'll do over the course of their contract. Clearly Zito of the last three years isn't the same guy as the Zito of his first three seasons. He stills eats innings and his ERAs look good but his peripherals are getting pretty scary-especially for someone reportedly demanding 6-7 years at $15M per. Basically, his xFIPS have been steadily climbing, his K/G has been trending downward and his BB/G has been trending up. The latter two are death knells for a guy with flyball tendencies (in any park). Right now xFIP is generally excepted as the best predictor of future performance for a pitcher. Zito's last year was an icky 5.46 (mlb average for starters was: 4.60). Importantly, Zito hasn't been above average relative to the league for the last three seasons using xFIP as an indicator.

So, IMHO, its a scary proposition to commit so much for so long to a guy whose peripherals seem to scream will be in a decline phase from day one of the contract. Intangibles be damned when talking about that kind of money.

I'd much rather use a stop gap like Lohse and hope Homer can be ready by August. I mean even if Zito gives you two solid years, what will you do for the final 4-5??? There is the potential that you'll have an even more expensive facsimile of Milton that can't be traded away. Truthfully, I'm not convinced that a good version of Zito in '07 puts the Reds into the playoffs.

Frankly, given the insane market for the mediocre crop of FA arms this year, I would've spent what money I had earmarked for FAs by loading up on offense and defense.

Anyways that's the world according to me....

200+ innings for six years straight. Only one of those years accumulating more than a 4.00 ERA -- and that being three seasons ago. Only twice allowing more than 200 hits on those 200+ innings. A fairly steady WHIP. I think that Barry zito has made a case for himself, above all else, for consistency at this point. And it is this above all else that endears him so much to me. And the fact that he works his tail off is just more icing for me. If he proves to be overrated, then I think some team will get a handful of absolutely stellar seasons out of him for a decent price, and in this world, what more can any team really hope for out of a pitcher?

He's going to have to have a genuinely scary season to convince me that he is in any way declining at this point. He hasn't gotten near close so far. To compare Zito to Lohse, even as a stopgap, is not only absurd to me, but indicative of absolutely what is fundamentally wrong with this team.

[edabbs44]

I would like to see Eduardo Perez over C Wilson. He would probably be a lot cheaper.

I like Riske a lot (despite maybe the worst last name a FA reliever could have) but I might vomit if Wayne goes after more bullpen help. Especially arms that will cost decent money.

The other guy I wouldn't have minded was JC Romero. But that all depends on the amt of $$ Boston had to give him.