The Hardball Times on Saarloos - RedsZone.com - Cincinnati Reds Fans' Home for Baseball Discussion

bianchiveloce · 01-29-2007, 04:27 PM

Hey, folks, here is an artilce on Saarloos from the guys at The Hardball Times. The artilce is by Sal Baxamusa and I e-mailed asking him for permission to link it here. Also, I sent Sal the link for RedsZone and he responded, "By the way, the discussion at Redszone is very interesting. Some smart fans over there! Sal"

Enjoy.
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/ar...-captain-kirk/

Johnny Footstool · 01-29-2007, 04:31 PM

Thanks for the link. We're also discussing this article on the ORG side.
http://www.redszone.com/forums/showt...=54133&page=12

jojo · 01-29-2007, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Footstool

Thanks for the link. We're also discussing this article on the ORG side.
http://www.redszone.com/forums/showt...=54133&page=12

Yes and we scooped Sal!

01-30-2007, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bianchiveloce

Hey, folks, here is an artilce on Saarloos from the guys at The Hardball Times. The artilce is by Sal Baxamusa and I e-mailed asking him for permission to link it here. Also, I sent Sal the link for RedsZone and he responded, "By the way, the discussion at Redszone is very interesting. Some smart fans over there! Sal"

Enjoy.
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/ar...-captain-kirk/

Nice article.

From what we see from his pitch count, it looks like he is the type of pitcher that gets ahead in the count (61% first pitch strikes), and gets the hitter to go after the sinker, and gets the groundball. If he keeps the ball down in GABP, I think he can be successful. Since he seems to be a "control reliant" pitcher, he is going to have really bad days when he gets the ball up, and probably really good ones where he is a mystery with the sinker, and we will just have to ride the wave. I hope the projections of just under 5 aren't that accurate. I think with probably one of the better defensive infields in the NL, he can do much better.

Nice read though.

pedro · 01-30-2007, 12:49 AM

I think Sarloos at least has some intrigue about him. Sure he's struggled in the majors, and doesn't have huge stuff on the surface, but what he does have is some major success in college and the low minors, so maybe he is that guy who can surprise us, I don't know. Either way, IMO, having him is a lot more interesting than not, regardless of the perceived upside.

RedEye · 01-31-2007, 04:02 PM

Ah yes... a 'grounder-inducing junkballer'... just what we need. At least he's not a 'flyball-inducing junkballer' (Milton?)

Caveat Emperor · 01-31-2007, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedEye

Ah yes... a 'grounder-inducing junkballer'... just what we need. At least he's not a 'flyball-inducing junkballer' (Milton?)

He's a grounder-inducing junkballer, but he's not your run-of-the-mill junkballer.

Most guys you associate into this category are guys that are A.) Past their prime, B.) Coming off (or have had at some point) major reconstructive surgery or a medical condition of some sort, C.) Middling talent that has never wowed anyone at any level, or D.) Some combination of all three factors.

Recent "junkballers" in the Reds rotation -- guys like Milton and Wilson especially -- have fallen into one of the above categories. Saarloos doesn't meet any of those criteria. He's succeeded in both college and the minors, never (as best as I can tell) had to go under the knife, and is coming into what should be his age-prime years.

Those factors give me a small amount of hope that he might flourish under different instruction than he has been getting in Oakland, a different pitching environment, a different league, etc. It's a small hope, but it's certainly a better hope than praying Eric Milton's knees spontaneously grow back.

Redsland · 01-31-2007, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor

Those factors give me a small amount of hope that he might flourish under different instruction than he has been getting in Oakland, a different pitching environment, a different league, etc.

The Dick Pole Factor, eh?

Puffy · 01-31-2007, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redsland

The Dick Pole Factor, eh?

I got that in college. I used Topical Cream to get rid of it.

minus5 · 01-31-2007, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redsland

The Dick Pole Factor, eh?

I think I saw that movie.

RedsManRick · 01-31-2007, 04:49 PM

Not saying they're the same, but at a quick glance, Saarloos' numbers look a lot like what Arroyo did in Boston in 2004 -- except he keeps the ball on the ground more. When Bronson misses bats, he's more effective, but he's been marginally effective even when he's not missing bats. We certainly he's not blowing fastballs past people.

Johnny Footstool · 01-31-2007, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedsManRick

Not saying they're the same, but at a quick glance, Saarloos' numbers look a lot like what Arroyo did in Boston in 2004 -- except he keeps the ball on the ground more. When Bronson misses bats, he's more effective, but he's been marginally effective even when he's not missing bats. We certainly he's not blowing fastballs past people.

I assume you meant Arroyo's 2005 season, because Arroyo's 2004 was worlds better than anything Saarloos has done in the majors.

And even Arroyo's 2005 would represent a huge improvement for Saarloos in terms of K/BB and K/9.

Mario-Rijo · 01-31-2007, 05:15 PM

Guys like this can do better than get by, look at Jamie Moyer in his latter years. His stuff was more poop than stuff, but he understood the art of pitching and got solid results more often than not. And he was further up the rotation than Saarloos.

I wonder if he could develop a solid change-up which could help him alot with K's when he needs them. My guess is he doesn't already have one or his K's would be better already. If he can develop that to be 6-8 miles off of his "Medium-Fast Ball" than he can have very good success as a 4th or 5th starter.

Other than that he is more a fill in starter/ long reliever type at best.

Heath · 01-31-2007, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bianchiveloce

Hey, folks, here is an artilce on Saarloos from the guys at The Hardball Times. The artilce is by Sal Baxamusa and I e-mailed asking him for permission to link it here. Also, I sent Sal the link for RedsZone and he responded, "By the way, the discussion at Redszone is very interesting. Some smart fans over there! Sal"

Enjoy.
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/ar...-captain-kirk/

Sal must not get out much.

Hi Sal!

Johnny Footstool · 01-31-2007, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heath

Sal must not get out much.

Hi Sal!

Maybe we drew his interest with our 3000-page threads about "The Trade".

Either that, or the 275 different trade proposals we come up each week with that involve Adam Dunn.

01-29-2007, 04:27 PM	#1
bianchiveloce Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Anderson, SC Posts: 56	The Hardball Times on Saarloos Hey, folks, here is an artilce on Saarloos from the guys at The Hardball Times. The artilce is by Sal Baxamusa and I e-mailed asking him for permission to link it here. Also, I sent Sal the link for RedsZone and he responded, "By the way, the discussion at Redszone is very interesting. Some smart fans over there! Sal" Enjoy. http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/ar...-captain-kirk/ __________________ "The one constant through all the years has been baseball. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. It has been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt and erased again. But baseball has marked the time. It reminds us of all that once was good and it could be again." -- Terence Mann in Field of Dreams

01-29-2007, 04:31 PM	#2
Johnny Footstool Churlish Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Olathe, KS Posts: 13,676	Re: The Hardball Times on Saarloos Thanks for the link. We're also discussing this article on the ORG side. http://www.redszone.com/forums/showt...=54133&page=12 __________________ "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

01-30-2007, 12:49 AM	#5
pedro Please come again Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: portland, oregon Posts: 14,716	Re: The Hardball Times on Saarloos I think Sarloos at least has some intrigue about him. Sure he's struggled in the majors, and doesn't have huge stuff on the surface, but what he does have is some major success in college and the low minors, so maybe he is that guy who can surprise us, I don't know. Either way, IMO, having him is a lot more interesting than not, regardless of the perceived upside. __________________ Get your nunchucks and the keys to your dad's car. I know where we can get a gun

01-31-2007, 04:02 PM	#6
RedEye Ojo Rojo Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Moving to Atlanta in July Posts: 5,004	Re: The Hardball Times on Saarloos Ah yes... a 'grounder-inducing junkballer'... just what we need. At least he's not a 'flyball-inducing junkballer' (Milton?)

01-31-2007, 04:49 PM	#11
RedsManRick Stat Wanker Hodiernus Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 14,986	Re: The Hardball Times on Saarloos Not saying they're the same, but at a quick glance, Saarloos' numbers look a lot like what Arroyo did in Boston in 2004 -- except he keeps the ball on the ground more. When Bronson misses bats, he's more effective, but he's been marginally effective even when he's not missing bats. We certainly he's not blowing fastballs past people. __________________ Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

01-31-2007, 05:15 PM	#13
Mario-Rijo HOF CLASS OF '12 Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Springfield, Ohio Posts: 9,003	Re: The Hardball Times on Saarloos Guys like this can do better than get by, look at Jamie Moyer in his latter years. His stuff was more poop than stuff, but he understood the art of pitching and got solid results more often than not. And he was further up the rotation than Saarloos. I wonder if he could develop a solid change-up which could help him alot with K's when he needs them. My guess is he doesn't already have one or his K's would be better already. If he can develop that to be 6-8 miles off of his "Medium-Fast Ball" than he can have very good success as a 4th or 5th starter. Other than that he is more a fill in starter/ long reliever type at best. __________________ 2008 Reds Draft Prospect RZ Scouting Reports 2009 Reds Draft Prospect RZ Scouting Reports 2010 Reds Draft Prospect RZ Scouting Reports "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one." --Woody Hayes

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