Marty Brennaman slams Adam Dunn....again.

[redsrule2500]

He has a point, and I somewhat agree.

Dunn shows no life, I'd rather have a guy like Freel.

[RedsBaron]

Originally Posted by Chip R

From David Halberstam's book October 1964

Chip--Thanks for posting the section from Halberstam's book on Carey's anti-Boyer crusade.
Harry Carey had his cult of fans drinking his Kook Aid, just as Marty does now.

[Jpup]

I often wonder if Marty's ripping on Dunn isn't some kind of inside joke between the two. I can't imagine it being reality. Would Marty dare speak of Adam that way in front of him where he could be called on it?

It has to be a joke.

[Ltlabner]

Originally Posted by edabbs44

The Reds were in a race last season...

Yea, the first time the team had been in a race this century. It will take more than a few months of competitive baseball to lure the fans back.

[membengal]

Originally Posted by realistic

Marty has been critical of several players over the years. This just bothers people so much because they think Dunn is above reproach.

NO. It bothered me when Brennamen did it with Willie Greene. It bothered me when he did it with Eric Davis (yes, I am plenty old enough to remember that). It bothers me when he does it with Eric Milton now. It bothers me. It always has. It detracts from the job he does behind the mic. It takes away from what got him into the HoF. It lessens him as a broadcaster. It turns him into a joke, a walking skit, a fool. THAT's what bothers me. I am bothered because he cheapens himself.

[Redlegs]

I like the fact Marty speaks his mind. Sometimes I think he's dead wrong, but I still like the fact he speaks what he thinks. Having heard other announcers like all of us have, I feel Marty's the best. I'd rather have a guy who slams players from time to time rather than hear someone like Ken Harrelson on White Sox broadcasts. When he teamed up with Tom "Pa-chore-ik" (don't know how to spell it), I used to be sickened by the way they never criticized anything. "Sox try to pull within 12 games of the lead and it's a big game today, Wimpy." " It really is Hawk, who's your pick to click today?"

What a joke.

[membengal]

Redlegs: I guess you ignore that there are professional ways to "speak your mind" that don't actively slag on the product or create fan hatred for players on the team?

Again, as I feel compelled to note each time this is discussed, I grew up with Brennamen like you all did, in my case sneaking a radio under my pillow when I was four years old in the summer of 1975 to listen to his calls with Joe. And have listened ever since. Went to the HoF not to see Doggie inducted, but instead to honor Marty and silently thank him for being a rich and important part of my life. And to honor his call of games.

BUT, the Dunn thing is emblematic of what has always been a weakness of his. It runs back decades. He was always good enough to not let it take over his persona in the past, but with Dunn, he seems to have slipped into "I don't care about being a professional" mode, and that is highly unfortunate. It really is.

You know what he's done? He's made me dread the first time Dunn Ks during a game this year. Dread his call. Dread waiting for the disgust. Dread knowing that he will be less of a broadcaster than he has always been. That's what is saddest. He used to be better than that.

[TRF]

Originally Posted by redsrule2500

He has a point, and I somewhat agree.

Dunn shows no life, I'd rather have a guy like Freel.

I'd rather have a hitter like Dunn.

And I'm a huge Freel fan.

[Yachtzee]

Originally Posted by realistic

If you are important enough to the team that someone is actually criticizing your hustle, then your hustle really does matter to the team.

If Dunn were making stupid outs, like getting thrown out at first by the right fielder or failing to make it to second on a hit to the gap, then yes, I would say hustle is an issue. But Ihaven't seen that happening. And it still doesn't change the fact that Marty said he would rather have "hustle" than "home runs." If he were saying that for a guy like Freel, who isn't going to give you a ton of home runs, it might make some kind of sense because no amount of swinging for the fences is going to increase his HR total. If "hustle" results in him getting on base more, then that's a good thing. But if "hustle" results in him getting thrown out stealing bases or trying to stretch singles into doubles and doubles into triples, even then it doesn't help more than it hurts.

For a guy like Dunn, who is a HR hitter and is not really fleet afoot, "hustle" is especially useless. If someone is willing to trade Dunn's home runs for "hustle," then I don't think that person has a firm grasp on what it takes to win ballgames.

[marcshoe]

Originally Posted by Ron Madden

Andy Furman and Tom Dinkle did Sunday morning Sportstalk in 1998. They were terrible.

Richard Skinner and Tom Gamble do it now. They aren't much better.

Thanks. I didn't really become familiar with Furman until 2000 (I started listening some during the Griffey trade talks), so I wasn't familiar with him. Looking back, it does seem his style, particularly the way he dealt with callers.

[Redlegs]

Originally Posted by membengal

Redlegs: I guess you ignore that there are professional ways to "speak your mind" that don't actively slag on the product or create fan hatred for players on the team?

The day Marty Brennaman begins to think before he speaks on the air, we lose the candid delivery that makes him what he is. Like I said, sometimes I think he's off base in some of his comments, but I wouldn't want him to change a thing.

I do not feel he has created fan hatred toward Adam Dunn. To assume that would be underminding the intellegence of Cincinnati baseball fans. They see the games and form their opinions. Based on the reaction to this thread, I see an overwhelming support of Adam Dunn. You'll see plenty of #44 jerseys at GABP this season as well.

[Ltlabner]

Originally Posted by membengal

You know what he's done? He's made me dread the first time Dunn Ks during a game this year. Dread his call. Dread waiting for the disgust. Dread knowing that he will be less of a broadcaster than he has always been. That's what is saddest. He used to be better than that.

And I dread the first time it happens and we get 16 pages of Marty sucks.

Face it, he's reflecting what the vast majority of casual fans are already thinking when Dunn K's. "good lord, we're paying him $10,000,000 a year to do that?!?!"

Both Marty and the fans are dead wrong about it being the end of the world if Dunner K's, but Marty is simply reflecting (1) what the fans already are thinking (2) the old school thinking about K's that Marty and the fans grew up being taught/beliving.

Now, could Marty use his bully pulpit to educate the fans about the value of OPB, that the walks offset the K's, that choking up and just trying to make contact would likely result in more ground outs/pop flys than productive hits, etc etc.....of course! But the fact that Marty is espousing the same line of thinking millions of fans already think, and that Marty has spent his entire professional carear being emersed in, shouldn't suprise anyone.

Then again, how many broadcast teams really discuss all of the OBP/OPS/RC27/VORP stuff that getts tossed around on RZ? None. A few touch on OBP/OPS but none that I know of are versed in the new ways of evaluating baseball, much less activley educating their listeners.

[Ltlabner]

Originally Posted by Redlegs

I do not feel he has created fan hatred toward Adam Dunn. To assume that would be underminding the intellegence of Cincinnati baseball fans. They see the games and form their opinions. Based on the reaction to this thread, I see an overwhelming support of Adam Dunn. You'll see plenty of #44 jerseys at GABP this season as well.

You are correct, he is simply reinforcing the fans already held and established beliefe that K's are bad. The idea that Marty somehow started this bandwagon of fans who think K's are bad all on his poofy haired own is silly. As is the idea that he is whipping up "Dunn hatred". All fans around baseball hold up the most tallented and highly paid players on the team to unrealistic standards and expect them to be infallable because their paycheck has so many zeros in it. If Marty went on a corrdinated campaign today to educate fans about the worth of Dunner, there would remain a large core of fans who would never be happy with what Dunn produces.

[Yachtzee]

Originally Posted by Ltlabner

And I dread the first time it happens and we get 16 pages of Marty sucks.

Face it, he's reflecting what the vast majority of casual fans are already thinking when Dunn K's. "good lord, we're paying him $10,000,000 a year to do that?!?!"

Both Marty and the fans are dead wrong about it being the end of the world if Dunner K's, but Marty is simply reflecting (1) what the fans already are thinking (2) the old school thinking about K's that Marty and the fans grew up being taught/beliving.

Now, could Marty use his bully pulpit to educate the fans about the value of OPB, that the walks offset the K's, that choking up and just trying to make contact would likely result in more ground outs/pop flys than productive hits, etc etc.....of course! But the fact that Marty is espousing the same line of thinking millions of fans already think, and that Marty has spent his entire professional carear being emersed in, shouldn't suprise anyone.

Then again, how many broadcast teams really discuss all of the OBP/OPS/RC27/VORP stuff that getts tossed around on RZ? None. A few touch on OBP/OPS but none that I know of are versed in the new ways of evaluating baseball, much less activley educating their listeners.

I don't really care if Marty talks about OBP and the like. I just can't stand it when he says stupid stuff and uses his bully pulpit to unfairly bash one of the team's best players. Marty says stupid stuff all the time and no one has the guts to call him on it, either on the air or in print. I don't care if it reflects what the casual fan thinks. Marty has a public forum and "professionalism" dictates that he use that public forum in a professional manner. Its one thing to say, "I really think Adam Dunn needs to work on some areas of his game" every once in a while. That's being candid. But to say stuff like "I've just about given up on him" and "I'd rather he hustle than hit home runs" or something to that effect, with his voice dripping with disdain, is downright unprofessional no matter how you slice it. Marty opens his mouth to dog Dunn at every opportunity and the only time I've heard him praise Dunn in the last year or so was for one walk-off home run that people like to use as evidence that he's not "against" Dunn. Well one call is not the rule, it's the exception.

Marty talks about being a "professional," but when he gets started on Dunn or Milton or Jim Bowden when the Nats are in town, it's not "professional." If anything it's childish. Criticize the performance if you like, but do so in an objective and neutral manner. Save the disdain and sarcasm for your friends off the air. I could tolerate the misinformed opinions if they came without the bile.

What really stinks is that if I want to follow the Reds, I have to listen to Marty spew his venom. I don't have the benefit of turning on Georgie Sunshine and the Creeper because I'm out of market and can't afford the EI package. My only other option is to follow it through game threads and chat on this website. Maybe if the Reds start a Spanish language broadcast, I'll learn Spanish.

[George Anderson]

Originally Posted by tixe

Thanks. I didn't really become familiar with Furman until 2000 (I started listening some during the Griffey trade talks), so I wasn't familiar with him. Looking back, it does seem his style, particularly the way he dealt with callers.

Did Furman find a new gig yet?